Automatic Cars EVERYWHERE

[Michael]

The American automotive market is dominated by people who view cars as appliances. For them, automatic transmissions are the natural choice.

 

In Europe and in most other parts of the world, if you just want transportation, you take public transportation, or you walk. Cars owners are more likely to be enthusiasts. So, manual transmissions are far more common. Europeans treat cars like Americans treat guns – you buy them because you want to, and because you enjoy them – not because they are an inescapable necessity of daily life.

 

Try renting a manual-transmission car in America: it’s essentially impossible.

 

Try renting an automatic-transmission car in Europe: it is possible, but difficult, and you’ll pay a hefty surcharge for the automatic.

 

So, as said above, manufacturers make what sells – and in America, automatics outsell manuals by something like 10:1.

 

The other “advantage†of automatics is that they’re a more natural fit with modern electronic controls. Active stability systems which modulate throttle as well as braking, and various other electro-nanny systems can be directly integrated into the valving and shifting of automatic transmissions. Manual transmissions – gearboxes – are much harder to “electrifyâ€. Case in point – GM’s “skip-shift†on T56 F-bodies, forcing a shift from 1st straight into 4th. This is a clumsy approach, and about at the limit of what can be done electronically with manual gearboxes.

 

Also, it’s true that manufacturers are no longer building strong manual transmissions rated for the torque produced by the top-of-the-line engines. Consider, for example, GM’s super-duty pickup trucks. The big diesel engine and the gas big-block may be both available with the manual transmission and the Allison automatic, but with the manual transmission the engines are de-rated. If you want the full torque, you’re stuck with the automatic.

 

I too lament the dearth of manual transmissions in modern cars. The Lexus IS350 sounds like a very appealing vehicle – decent exterior, good engine, the expected Lexus quality and reliability – but the automatic and the electro-nannies are definitely detractors. Paddling-shifting is a silly gimmick. I’d rather just have a plain automatic with a floor shifter, than the paddle-crap – which is just another set of gadgets just waiting to break down.

[Brad-ManQ45]

My personal opinon is that automatics are for trucks and individuals who can't shift or are to lazy!

 

I have pretty much had a manual transmission vehicle in the stable since starting to drive in 1970.

 

After bbeing run over by a Lincoln Town Car running a red light on my motorcyle in '75 (leg and ankle) and having an idiot in a 2/4 ton truck towing a 25 foot boat rear-end me in a Starion in '86 (lower back & hip), I find I am simply not able to drive 45 minutes in stop and go traffic with the clutch on my '83 ZXT.

 

Yes, it is fun to take out for a spin, but in the Atlanta area, everywhere you go is a traffic jam.

 

I have had the ZXT since '91, and for 9 years it was basic transportation, but that was always against the flow of commuter traffic (sometimes 35 miles one way).

 

When I moved further out and got a dose of driving it (15 miles each way, no interstate) everyday in our traffic like everyone else, I started driving the Q45 which I had bought as an "our car" for when we were both together on weekends and on trips (the ZXT and her Stanza both manuals and rather noisy on the interstates).

 

When I get around to freshening the ZXT, I am seriously considering adapting a 200R4 or 4L60e to it and driving it more. The Flowfit seats are comfortable all day, more so than the Q's or the Lincoln Town Car seats.

 

The Q is now my wfe's car and the Town Car is what I drive (got rid of the POS Stanza and bought her the Town Car, but she doesn't drive much, and between the miles and the cost of premium.....). I will say the that Lincoln sedats a far more comfortable than the Q45's though.

 

The real reason autos are so popular is that they leave a hand free to apply makeup, hold cell phones and lattes and flip people off....

[Moridin]

thought i was the only one left who thinks paddle shifters are a joke. Whew.

 

Except when you can put it in launch control mode (Audi, BMW, Ferrari, etc...) and launch the piss out of the car. This is especially usefull in the Audis (TT anyone) for very, very fast 0 to 60 times.

[Moridin]

So' date=' this high dollar car can't be depended on to start?? rthe realon you can't push start a modern automatic isn't the fluid coupling but the lack if a rear pump that is the problem. The early Hydromatics could be push started.

 

You must mean those wussy little pickups that Lexus guys buy to haul ther motorcycles around. My truck has an 18 speed. If it ain't a Peterbilt, it ain't a truck.[/quote']

 

Or Volvo.

[Guest JAMIE T]

HEHE, I've been thinking of using a TH400 or TH350 behind my RB26 instead of the RB25/OS Giken 5 spd.

[TomoHawk]

All the high-end cars with any kind of performance that I've ever seen, like the Lincoln LS, T-Bird, corvette have auto trandsmissions with are fully shiftable manually. You can Either flip a switch or the shift has a dual gate with one side acting like a ratchet shifter so you can bump it up or down a gear at a time. Some with aftermarket rachet (bang-band) shifters.

 

the only difference is trhat there's no clutch- which is the weakest & least efficient part of the system. Auto transmissions nowaday are SO much better than standards that you are actuallu degrading the value of the car with a clutch. Unless the car is 20+ years old... Even the high-dollar street rods have auto transes with ratchet shifters!

 

I guess it just depends if you want the sloppy, retro standard trans or the newer, efficient auto.

[rudypoochris]

All the high-end cars with any kind of performance that I've ever seen' date=' like the Lincoln LS, T-Bird, corvette have auto trandsmissions with are fully shiftable manually. You can Either flip a switch or the shift has a dual gate with one side acting like a ratchet shifter so you can bump it up or down a gear at a time. Some with aftermarket rachet (bang-band) shifters.

 

the only difference is trhat there's no clutch- which is the weakest & least efficient part of the system. Auto transmissions nowaday are SO much better than standards that you are actuallu degrading the value of the car with a clutch. Unless the car is 20+ years old... Even the high-dollar street rods have auto transes with ratchet shifters!

 

I guess it just depends if you want the sloppy, retro standard trans or the newer, efficient auto.[/quote']

 

I am not sure in what sense you define the clutch. If you mean simply the physical absense of the clutch only or also the absense of its added abilities over an auto torque converter. But the clutch on a manual transmission allows the driver to do many things an automatic be it tiptronic, paddle, or just plain simply cannot do. The clutch while being the weakest link, in your opinion, provides many benefits to a performance driver. Here are some general benefits in my mind:

 

1. You choose your shift points, alot of cars running autos do not take advantage of the full power band (which can sometimes include redline). Also coming out of a turn you will normally not be instantly in the gear you want. Also shifts cannot be anticipated excepted with tiptronics and paddle shifts which will result in a pretty hard lurch if you are down shifting.

 

2. They simply don't shift as fast as most manuals (provided the tranny has normal syncros and doesn't have a 3 foot long throw)

 

3. More power is lost through an average auto then through an average manual.

 

4. The throttle is hard to modulate at low speeds or on grades. I am referring to starting on a hill or something of the sort. Or snow/ice driving. For instance if you want to crawl in a driveway with a grade from a stop w/o hitting the car 3 feet in front of you. You rolls back then snap acceleration at least from my experiences.

 

5. They are heavier

 

6. More expensive to maintain and perform worse the harder you drive (hot ATF)

 

Other things too like you are too detached in my opinion from the driving experience, which is dangerous. But those are just personal opinions about stereotypical auto drivers so i won't get into that.

 

The main thing i think the tranny is good for is consistant launches that are very good when dragging that also are easier on the gears. (But this doesn't really apply because i was talking about stock cars from the manufacturer, most aren't seeing the hp high enough to make an auto a better tranny in a straight line)

[quicker240]

Well I just gotta get in on this.I drove my Z back in the day with a hopped up 6 cyl and manual trans at many an autocross.I like the control of a manual trans as much as the next guy but I am definately not gonna slam my beloved slush box.More than a few times swapping gears with the stick got in the way during hard cornering maneuvers.I decided when i went V8 that I would sacrifice the extra HP needed to turn the auto by making more HP than I needed.I know for a fact I can beat many higher HP cars at the track with the auto,and quite honestly,its much easier to just smack the shifter for a gear change rather than perfectly executing a manual shift.400 HP in a 2800 lb car makes me appreciate being able to have BOTH hands on the wheel as much as possible.Just feels like I am in maximum control.Just a point of view from the dark side.By the way,I wouldn't even consider having a 4 cyl car without a manual trans.

[Moridin]

All the high-end cars with any kind of performance that I've ever seen' date=' like the Lincoln LS, T-Bird, corvette have auto trandsmissions with are fully shiftable manually. You can Either flip a switch or the shift has a dual gate with one side acting like a ratchet shifter so you can bump it up or down a gear at a time. Some with aftermarket rachet (bang-band) shifters.

 

the only difference is trhat there's no clutch- which is the weakest & least efficient part of the system. Auto transmissions nowaday are SO much better than standards that you are actuallu degrading the value of the car with a clutch. Unless the car is 20+ years old... Even the high-dollar street rods have auto transes with ratchet shifters!

 

I guess it just depends if you want the sloppy, retro standard trans or the newer, efficient auto.[/quote']

 

Try road racing with an auto. There's a big difference.

[Chaparral2f]

Try road racing with an auto. There's a big difference.

Look closely at my avatar. That car is an automatic, and it gave the Ford GT-40s all they could handle. It won at Nurburing and at brands Brands Hatch. It set the fastest lap time at Sebring and Daytona, and sat on the pole at Monza. Of course that was way back in the dark ages of 1967, and we all know that automatic transmission technology has just gone downhill since then.

 

Rudypoochris, have you ever driven a car with a FULL manual valvebody? Mine is and it will shift anywhere I want it to into any gear. so if I wanted to drop into low gear at 8000 rpm, it will go.

[Pop N Wood]

Automatics generally add another grand to the price of a car or truck. Manuals give you better control in the snow and do allow push starting at speeds under 30 mph. Autos always seem to break and they cost a fortune to fix when they do. I can replace a clutch in my driveway, but I don't own the tools to rebuild an auto. Automatics also have greater driveline losses, hence the typically lower gas mileage with the auto vs. a stick.

 

I am too damn cheap to own a car with an auto.

 

Autos are easier on the drivetrain. I think that is one of the big reasons for the higher tow ratings on automatic equipped vehicles. They are also much more pleasant to drive in heavy, stop and go traffic.

[Moridin]

Look closely at my avatar. That car is an automatic' date=' and it gave the Ford GT-40s all they could handle. It won at Nurburing and at brands Brands Hatch. It set the fastest lap time at Sebring and Daytona, and sat on the pole at Monza. Of course that was way back in the dark ages of 1967, and we all know that automatic transmission technology has just gone downhill since then.

 

Rudypoochris, have you ever driven a car with a FULL manual valvebody? Mine is and it will shift anywhere I want it to into any gear. so if I wanted to drop into low gear at 8000 rpm, it will go.[/quote']

 

This is what I gathered on the auto trannies in the 2J in an interview with Vic Elford.

 

"It was a semi-automatic transmission, it wasn't fully automatic. It had a three-speed transmission with a torque converter and a lock-up at 5,000 rpm. It was quite complicated to get it running."

 

I never knew they had that in those cars, but at the same time, I doubt that would go in any streetable car. From the experience I've gathered (and I've been in a few ratchet shifting cars) is that manual transmissions are far more fun and direct than an automatic. To me, there is nothing like braking hard for a corner and perfectly rev matching the downshift as to not disrupt the chassis. The full manual valve bodies in an automatic can downshift, but do they disrupt the balance when they do (sudden lunge/jerk)?

 

What I'm really interested in now-a-days is the merging of the auto and manual for the semi-autos (computer controlled clutches). The Audi's, BMW's, etc... all seem to launch extremely hard with the aid of the computer. No worrying about stall speed, just where the car is programmed to launch at.

[crazy280]

the only difference is trhat there's no clutch- which is the weakest & least efficient part of the system.

 

Actually a clutch is more efficient than a torque converter. Compare power to the wheels figures from the same engine with manual and then with auto trannies and you'll see what I mean.

 

I like sticks more than autos, but that's just me

Those new "paddle shift" manuals (as seen in Ferraris) are cool. They have a clutch, but it is electronically activated. I read that they had Schumaker run laps in the car and they data logged his RPM and etc. and then used the info to program his clutch work into their paddle-shift computers. BMW uses a "sequential" manual, which has a stick to shift with, but is like the paddle-shift trannies in that the clutch is electronically activated. These trannies are supposedly worth half a second in the 1/4, becuase they shift much faster than a human. Cool stuff!

[rudypoochris]

Look closely at my avatar. That car is an automatic' date=' and it gave the Ford GT-40s all they could handle. It won at Nurburing and at brands Brands Hatch. It set the fastest lap time at Sebring and Daytona, and sat on the pole at Monza. Of course that was way back in the dark ages of 1967, and we all know that automatic transmission technology has just gone downhill since then.

 

Rudypoochris, have you ever driven a car with a FULL manual valvebody? Mine is and it will shift anywhere I want it to into any gear. so if I wanted to drop into low gear at 8000 rpm, it will go.[/quote']

 

As i stated above i am talking about stock cars from the manufacture, oem. Don't know what a full manual valvebody is but I am going to go out on a limb and assume that it isn't offered on most stock auto's.