Mikelly Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Based on what Jeff Creech has seen over the last few years, I'm not gonna go with a patriot head. The inconsistancy (And he has a LOT of dyno charts to back it up) of the heads is the issue... You get good ones, and then you get bad ones... I'm actually gonna take Jeff's advice and drive the car over the winter and see how it does. By spring, some of these Dart heads will have been installed and run... Once we get feedback, I'll know to either get a set of those, or use my 99 heads or something Jeff may have in house. Those ASA heads need investigating too... Jeff swears those make B-I-G HP. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted October 27, 2005 Author Share Posted October 27, 2005 Help me out guys. I've looked at the stuff on the Thunder Racing site but Googleing ASA doesn't get me there. Where do I go for info on the ASA heads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleMX Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 ASA racing heads are designed for the Grand Am Cam from GM. They have huge ports and would require long tube headers. Scoggings can get them, but personally I believe it's a real bad choice. http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2087/Cylinder-Heads.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 They are a full race head, but apparently work real well with mild cams. The ASA cam is a little more aggressive, but again, something to look at if emissions aren't a concern. I'm gonna sit tight, run this package over the winter and see what hits the (used) market. I also want to read some feedback on those Dart heads... Can't wait to see them in action. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Actually, I pulled the numbers off the asa cam and it isn't THAT wild a cam after all... Hmmmm... Kinda backs up what Jeff was saying about the asa heads, though they are pricey... I may end up with a set of #243 castings and start over with larger valves and yadayadayada... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 So, what about the AFR LS1 heads? They are pricey, but what HP do they come in at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleMX Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Check it out. This is the way I will go next time (AFR 205). I researched heads and cams for a year before I decided on Absolute speed, then had a hard time getting them because he's a lone porter with talent and got in over his head with too many orders. His heads work great, but fall off above .600 lift. Anyway check out what AFR's and a thunder cam do in the link below. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395815 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I'm going to do two things... Wait for the Dart heads to see how well they perform, and I'm going to send my 98s off to get them flowed. I need to see what they need to work with... THen I'm gonna get another block or shortblock and start building an LS6 for the Zcar. This will be a dedicated track only deal, so a drysump will be employed, along with other "stuff"! MIke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraymond Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I have priced having some 5.3 heads ported (with larger valves and springs) and priced new ones. I have seen dyno #s from budget heads and high dollar ones. I would have to see some justification for spending more. Do people that spend on the high end for heads have more tune work than some one on the low end? Would the 5.3 stage 2 patriot heads fall into the less is more theory for LS1 heads and if not why? There are forums to support almost any opinion. I really want to spend my money wisely the first time. http://ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5506 http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2087/Cylinder-Heads.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraymond Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The Dart and Edelbrock heads are close in price to the Patriot and much less than AFR's. It would be great if all could be dyno'd on the same streetable LS1. I would find it hard to believe that there would be that much difference between them. What is it a my 5 axis cnc is better than yours deal. I can see where a new performance casting(Dart/Edelbrock) may have some advantage but alot of people use the 5.3 casting like you can get from Patriot. Here is the Patriot link for comparison http://sites.reachtheworld.tv/waterNew/default.asp?T=505233&DID=1225 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Well in my exact experience, The head made, or in my case DIDN'T make the motor... My Vette has been dynoe'd three times now... The first time the car was bone stock except for a CAI and a Catback Borla system... It made 296WHP and 301#ft. Torque...This was Memorial Day weekend 2004 and no LS1 Edit tuning was done. Then: My bone stock LS1 in my corvette withLS1 EDIT tune, LGM long tube headers, high flow cats, 3 inch exahust, an LS6 intake and shaner ported Tbody, made 335HP and 353#Ft. torque. This was on a 112K mile car and the same motor 9 months later, February 2005. NOW, last week I tuned the new motor and the numbers speak for themselves... My new LS1 ported heads have bigger (Stage 2) valves, and lots of port work... Probably to much port work (Port velocity is probably screwed) to make the power it should have... There are a LOT of guys in the Corvette community with my exact setup (Except for the heads) and running the thunder racing 224/224 114LSA cam making well over 400WHP. The ONLY thing we can think of is the heads. So yea, Heads make a HUGE difference... 375WHP and 370#ft. torque is a far cry from our goal. And I'll say this again about those patriot heads... BEWARE... There is a huge inconsistancy in their performance. Guys are reporting this everywhere, and Jeff at Carolina AutoMasters has seen it over and over again... I suspect the Patriots are suffering the same issue as my heads... Port velocity loss on some of them... In General, LS1 heads flow so well out of the box, that you really have to know what you're doing with them to gain power. My builder didn't know, and ported the beejesus out of them (And they LOOKED so damned good too! ) and that port work (At my suggestion, I didn't know at the time) was probably what killed the power... Heads are gonna get you 40HP easily and likely more... So buy what you KNOW will work... Don't do what I did and then find yourself standing in a guys shop with your car strapped down and wondering WHY you didn't make the power you had been told you should make. Sux 2 B me! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Sounds like you need a little help *cough* power adder *cough* to take advantage of the porting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 Hmm - Do I hear the term "ATI Procharger"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Not me... I'm a KISS kinda guy... Keep it simple stupid... Takes three hours to change a serpantine belt on a SC equipped corvette. About the same amount of time to do the spark plugs... No thanks... I'll wait until spring, maybe send my 99 heads out to be cleaned up and checked out, and possibly swap them in place once I have more revenue coming in... We figure I'm probably making about 425Crank HP, which is still nothing to sneeze at, so I guess I'm semi-happy... On another, Unrelated note, I've got to pull the oil cooler off the car. It is leaking, and I can't seem to get it to stop, so it's coming off. I won't need it for the winter anyway. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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