Strengthening Front Anti Sway Bar Mounts

[JMortensen]

I was thinking that I'd like to make these end links as long as possible to minimize the change to the angles that the rod ends run at. I scrounged around for a while trying to find something other than the 1x1 angle iron that I have. Finally found some 1.5 x 2 angle iron, and did this:

 

 

Man I'm a retard sometimes! I was sitting here thinking, how am I going to keep the rod end from hitting that tall piece of angle iron. The solution, weld the 1x1 to the top of the control arm. So that's the plan. I'm going to put a brace in down towards the end of the control arm just to prevent the welding of the angle from warping the arm, then I'm going to weld 1x1 to the bottoms of the control arms to attach the end links to. There should be plenty of room in that giant hole that the links go through to keep them from hitting anything.

[JMortensen]

All right! Making progress but hitting more snags. Got the rear bar to move nicely without binding. Had to bend the bar a tad, which was easier than I thought it would be. Anyway the issue I have now is that everything works, but the center to center on the end link is 3.5", which means that I have literally 2 threads hanging on when the male and female rod ends are screwed together. So I guess I need a new way to do this. I can't really think of anything except maybe welding a nut to the end of the female rod end to lengthen it. Kinda hokey, but I think it might be my best option. The end link is too small for a turnbuckle to be easy to use, not to mention I don't have the LH rod ends or a LH 3/8-24 tap to make one with, and I can only guess that that little tap probably runs $50. Anyone have a good alternative?

[JMortensen]

Found the answer. http://www.mcmaster.com part no 8419K13 is a 2" long female turnbuckle.

 

Just ordered it up along with 4 LH male rod ends.

[tube80z]

It looks like you came up with a solution. I use 3.8 tap tube from coleman and left right taps for this. The taps weren't that bad and I've used them enough to pay for themselves.

 

I also have the 5/8 and 3/4 tap tube for suspension bits. It's come in very handy over the years.

 

Cary

[JMortensen]

Success! I've got one side roughly tacked in place, and can articulate the suspension without any bind or weirdness. I think after doing this I realize why you can't find an aftermarket adjustable rear bar for a Z. The damn end links are too short.

 

You can see that at full droop on the stiffest setting the end of the bar actually sticks through the hole in the control arm. The pics at full bump came out so so, the idea was to show that there was daylight between the control arm and the swaybar, which there was about 1/2" in every case.

 

Also the end is tacked on pretty much in line with the bar, but due to the weird angle it looks like it isn't.

 

So, Cary, Terry, anyone else who has welded an end on a swaybar, I'm thinking of drilling a hole in the end of the bar and plug welding as Cary suggested previously, then just welding all the way around the oval shaped end of the bar. My other option would be to bend the back of the end to follow the shape of the bar, and then I might be able to grind a flat on the side of the bar a little further back. Seems like a lot of work and I'm hoping that you guys will tell me that the plug and welding around the perimeter of the bar will be sufficient.

 

Pics:

[JMortensen]

Fabrication on the rear bar is done. I did 2 plug welds and then went all the way around the perimeter. I think that's going to be enough. Looks strong. We shall see.

 

I did screw one thing up a bit, but I have a half assed easy fix for it. You can see in the pictures that the passenger side end links line up pretty much straight up and down, and the drivers side is not straight at all. In fact its straighter if I put it on the middle hole for the bar and leave it in the 3rd hole for the control arm. I looked at it and there were a series of steps where I kinda had to guess where things were going to go: the bar stock placement at the end of the bar, the angle iron placement on the control arms, the bends of the swaybar, the cut at the end of the swaybar. Well, they all added up to create this dilemma.

 

The good news is that I have enough room to put another hole in the end of the bar on that side, and the end link doesn't hit anything, so I will drill that extra hole and end up with 7 adjustments. After all, it doesn't matter if one side of the bar is in a different hole than the other, because the effect of the swaybar is controlled by both ends, not one or the other. So it will be, uh, unique! That's it! Unique!!!

 

 

Now I just need to do the front bar. That end should be easier (famous last words) because there shouldn't be so much of an issue with the end link length.

[tube80z]

Looks good to me. Just think even with a little boo boo it's much better than most of the bars people have on their cars. You saw how easy it is for a lot of this stuff to bind and you've taken the time to fix that.

 

Cary

[JMortensen]

Onto the fronts. Looks like the front mount for the control arm isn't going to be double shear Cary. You can see in the photos that the angle iron is about 1/8" away from the TC rod. I actually had to grind the TC rod for clearance (I'm redoing the front part of the rod anyway, so it doesn't matter). There just isn't room in there for both pieces of angle iron. With it situated this way it would be impossible to put a nut on the end to tighten the end link. I could move the brackets further up the control arm, but then I end up with less motion ratio on the bar, and I don't want to make the bar weaker in all 3 adjustment positions if I can help it.

 

So in the last pic I removed the tacked piece of angle that I had tried, and that appears to be the way it's going to stay.

 

I've also already cut the end of the bar, but didn't take pics of that. So basically I just need to bend and drill the ends on the bar, and weld the other bracket on the other control arm, and then the sway bar saga will be over.

 

[JMortensen]

I went ahead and set the wrenches down for today. I'm getting frustrated and need to come back to it later.

 

I got some unsolicited advice from Cary (thanks man!) about how to do the mount for the control arm, so I'm back into trying that again. I'm using some 1x1 square tube with the top cut off so that it's basically a U, and letting the tube hang off the ends of the control arm. It's a good idea, but I'm still not having any luck. The problem appears to be the angle that the control arm sweeps through. Just too much angle change on the control arm end. I even tried setting the U on the control arm at an angle to match the sway bar's angle, and still can't get enough angularity out of the rod end, particularly the one that attaches to the control arm. Then I tilted the U channel itself. Still not enough. I tried longer end links, no dice. I tried changing the angle of the sway bar. Nope. I think I'm pretty much stuck. The bar moves fine, its just that control arm rod end that isn't cooperating.

 

My best alternative idea so far is to use a poly bushing on the control arm with a 3/8" bolt and then screw that into a female rod end on the swaybar. That would at least be 1/2 bitchin and free moving. I could do Cary's famous droop limiters, but I'm still concerned at the angularity. This is just moving the suspension up and down, there is no twist on the bar at all. I'd hate to set it up so that there is just a gnat's *** clearance with it like this, then find out that when it's actually doing it's job it's way more twisted than this.

 

You can see the problem from these pics:

 

The second one is not full droop, because there was another issue going on, but at full droop the rod end is maxed one way, and at full compression it's maxed out the other way.

 

Suggestions appreciated. Again.

[tube80z]

What happens if you put the channel on top of the TC mount? Does that gain you anything?

 

And for droop, how much do you have? If you're springs come unseated you can limit to that with no real change in how the car works.

 

Cary

[JMortensen]

I set my spring perches so that they touch top and bottom with the strut fully extended, so theoretically I could use all of the droop, although in it's last iteration I generally ran with the perches almost all the way down, which probably gave about 2" compression and 4 inches of droop. I'll be closer to the middle of the stroke at ride height this time with the struts sectioned. The suspension is so much different now I don't know exactly where it's going to be running at, but I imagine I'll have something like 3" of droop.

 

If I put the channel on top of the TC mount then the end link would hit the strut, unless I really gave it a severe angle inwards. I suppose I could do that and see what happens, but it isn't as easy as moving it around on the arm itself, because there are the bolts that hold the TC rod on and all the rest of that crap in the way. Either the sway bar bracket would have to bolt on, or the TC rod wouldn't be able to be disconnected later on because it would all be welded together.

[tube80z]

Can you turn one of the rod ends 90 degrees. Maybe the top one on the end of a slider adjustment?

 

I personally think you have way too much droop. Look at late model bimmers and porsches. They have a lot less.

 

Cary

[JMortensen]

I don't think that will work based on the attempt at the rear. Maybe I'll mock it up just to try it real quick, but I think that in the rear it limited me to about 3" of travel total. Actually, this one doesn't seem to move as much fore and aft as the rear did. I'll try it tomorrow, shouldn't take more than 1/2 hour to mock it up to test it.

 

You're probably right about the droop, I just don't want to start another project right now. I've already got 5000 things on the to do list, and I'd really like to get the damn car sealed up and rust proofed this summer. Just for curiosity's sake though, do you have any links for the droop limiting straps that you're using?

[proxlamus©]

you are crazy dude.. LOL..

 

very impressive so far though!! very unique!

 

let us know how she is on the track!

[tube80z]

Just for curiosity's sake though, do you have any links for the droop limiting straps that you're using?

 

I used turnbuckles and cables from the hardware store. The only reason I did this was thinking about it while I was working out on my blowflex, which has a lot of cables and associated hardware. The turnbuckles allowed me to accurately set droop/preload on the springs. I think both Jegs and Summit sell a kit for drag cars that would work.

 

I attached the top to the strut tower wtih a metal strap that had holes and bolt that was welded to it. This was then had the turnbuckle attached to it. The bottome had another bolt that had a clevis end welded to it and then cable down to a bracket on the TC rod.

 

Other options would be a mechanical stop against the bottom of the swaybar. I thought about this for some time and chose the cables because I wasn't sure any of this would work when I first did it. Now that I know it works I could see investing more time in a better solution.

 

Cary

[JMortensen]

Well the reason the bar wasn't in full droop in this picture is because the clamp around the bar was hitting the frame. It wouldn't be adjustable or anything, but maybe I could use that as a limiter, just to try and get freedom of movement without any bind. It was only limiting about the first inch of droop at the most.

 

I'm still going to try rotating the bottom rod end 90 degrees, but I think that this droop limiter might work, and realistically it will rarely if ever get used while the car is actually being driven.

[JMortensen]

Thanks for the encouragement proxlamus. I'll let everyone know when I get it running, but don't hold your breath. Still a hell of a lot to do unfortunately...

 

OK I've got one side working, no binding, no droop limiting. So now I just need to make the other side match and weld it in permanently and I'll be good to go. The middle setting on the control arm will be double shear, but unfortunately the full tight and full loose settings won't be. I am out of patience for trying to box in the bracket and make it double shear. F'ed that up twice, so now it's single shear on the outer positions. I am going to put a piece of angle on the inboard side of the brackets to stiffen them.

 

In order to get it working I had to bend the end of the bar a bit more so that it is pretty well perpendicular to the control arm. I also had to use larger angle iron, because the 1x1 stuff that I used in the back bound on the rod end in the soft and hard positions. I also had to move the brackets closer to the leading edge of the control arm which is why you'll see an arrow in the pics. That was a little reminder telling me which way to move it.

 

So here's the pics:

[tube80z]

The middle setting on the control arm will be double shear, but unfortunately the full tight and full loose settings won't be. I am out of patience for trying to box in the bracket and make it double shear.

 

I think if you run a longer bolt and a spacer in the middle you'll make it a lot stiffer when you have the rod end on the outside or inside.

 

Cary

[JMortensen]

If I had the angle iron in there so that the brackets were supported on the side, do you think I'd need the 1" spacers in the middle? Spacers are kind of a PITA to cut accurately on my bandsaw.

[JMortensen]

DONE! Made little boxes to strengthen the mount on the control arm so that I can run a long bolt with no spacer. Then it was such a bitch to get the spacers in that I decided to tack them in place. It moves through the whole range of travel very smoothly and with no bind. On to the next project!!! Fix front crossmember slots or rod end tie rods... hmmm........