MusPuppis Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 http://www.abrn.com/abrn/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=196423 Yeah. Soo.. Yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhadman Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I think that this, like most things having to do with CARB and the EPA, is about money. I'm sure that many body shops (especially those whose primary business is insurance work) would openly embrace this type of enforcement. Anyone who needed any type of minor paint work would be forced to pay a shop to do the work. It would really suck if you, a non-certified individual, could not buy your own paint/paint-related products. *sigh* I'm glad, atleast, that the implementation date is targeted for '07. A couple more months and I will have my car painted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Soon silverware will be taken away to stop suicides. What a freekin' mess of a country this is becoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Overseas supplies of paint over the internet will begin getting screaming amounts of business!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatMan Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Overseas supplies of paint over the internet will begin getting screaming amounts of business!!! Excellent point. I wish I had that "I'm with Stupid" smiley! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 The paint industry as a whole deals with particularly nasty chemicals, mostly carcinogenic ones to boot, which become airborne and waterborne and ultimately have an effect on everyone. I am an Environmental engineer, not a tree hugger, so let me tell you just a few quick things to think about. 1 oz of gasoline will contaminate 8000 gallons of water. When they rinse down the shop where do you think the overspray on the floor goes? It goes down the drain, to the WWTP and into the rivers, streams and lakes, where you get your water to drink. If you walk through paint particles on the floor of a shop, within 24 hours you will ingest those same particles. Personally I've never seen an old painter that wasn't an alcoholic and seemed alittle weird. This is due mostly in part to what I'm talking about. The world as a whole reached it's capacity to naturally consume human waste around 1900. The solution to pollution is dilution, but we are running out of dilution and it's starting to get concentrated to the point something has to be done. There is no sure fix, regulatory compliance is on the horizon, not only for this aspect of life, but for many others as well. IMO man will be his own demise and population can't keep growing, if we are to survive the long haul. The bright side is that I won't be around to see it all end and according to Saudi, they have enough oil to last another 70 years, so it's pedal to the metal for me anyway. There has to be a better disposal method for paint, both leftover paint, thinners, reducers, etc. as well as overspray. I'm just not sure what it is, although I've never dealt with regulatory issues regarding such, cause they aren't in existence yet. But when they are, I'm sure I'll get to work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I too am an Environmental engineer. The CA clean water act requires all businesses that have Haz mat/waste on their floors to use a catch tank and have the rinse water appropriately disposed of.....does that always happen? Doubtful. While I agree with everything in your statement above, I disagree with the Environmental agencies (esp. in CA) writing new laws/regs etc when if the existing ones were enforced correctly then there would be no need for the new ones..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentZ Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 man will be his own demise and population can't keep growing, if we are to survive the long haul Bird Flu will correct over population if it hits as hard as they reckon it could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Your right tim, but that would be too easy to enforce the ones we already have. I'm not sure about CA, but here in NM there is no teeth to the laws we have which sound similar. I think what they are trying to curb is the homeboys, and the backyard shops trying to skirt the existing law. Your rich uncle is not your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusPuppis Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 I understand the enviromental implications and such and yeah, something does need to be done.. But I greatly dislike being FORCED to take my car to some other asshat to have work done I can do myself. Some of us - even if we could afford to have it done - would do it ourselves just 'cause we can. I'm going to school for Auto Body starting in January, so one way or another I'll be in the refinishing industry in a couple years anyway, so I'll be able to paint my car(s) through whatever shop I'm working at (or own) but the principle still stands. As to the home painter.. Are there any studies on the amount of toxins this person releases into the air/water/ground? I mean, the average person cant paint more than one car a year.. Most poeple just buy the stuff and do it one time to their own car. The poeple who do this are also few and far between.. The average guy doesnt get into an accident and stand up and say "BY GOD! ILL REPAIR AND PAINT THE CAR MYSELF! HEAR HEAR! THREE CHEERS FOR ME!" Its the hobbyist thats going to invest to money and time to buy and learn the equipment - there arent *that* many of us out painting our own cars. I dont see home-brew painters as an epidemic level problem. What kind of collective damage is caused by us? I'd like to know. If its some staggering amount and it turns out that by primering my car I'm giving birds and local school kids liver cancer or poisoning the local water supply and causing an apocolyptic loss of life at local old-folks homes - then I'll stand up and stop what I'm doing in a heart beat. But I want to be damn sure this is getting put into effect to see TANGIBLE benefits and not just to centralize the use to specific poeple for EASE of regulation. I dislike being punished because other poeple have made a mistake.. And thats what this feels like. Another thing.. Would it be possible to sell (they could make some money.. someone could anyway) some type of paint disposal kits? SO the home brew painter with a thought to the damage he may cause could pay a few extra bucks and get some kind of package designed to make his spraying safer? Alot wouldnt adhere to this of course, but some of us would. And just what that kit would entail I couldnt say, because I dont know the enviromental risks that well. MAybe some kind of absorbant foam/material you could use to mop up the paint-water when you clean up afterwards, or maybe some kind of filter you could attach to whatever fan(s) your using for ventillation that would trap some of the crap we dont want in the ait (if that could be done..) and proper information distributed to poeple on where to take the paint waste for disposal. I dont understand the problem well enough to make any type of educated statements.. Those are just my opinions and are probably easily refuted.. but thats the way I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I can't believe the overspray from me spraying primer in my garage is going to turn the neighborhood into a pack of raging alcoholic. (Wait, I think they already are). I can see forcing a big shop that paints thousands of cars a year to pony up for some decent protection gear. And I can also see telling small shops the same if there are so many of them that the cumulative release is significant. But what I can't see is forcing the backyard hobbist to pay some shop to paint his car because he can't be trusted with a can of paint. I just can't believe the DIY problem is that big that it requires this kind of draconian response. I defy someone to post some numbers. Whole thing smacks of protectionism on the part of the collision repair shops. Ever try to buy a repair part for your furnace? Can't buy the part without a union card. Why? Because it is too unsafe for a homeowner to work on his own furnace, or because the repair places want the extra $800 they get for having one of their repair men install it? Just another attempt at a government mandated monopoly. It is illegal for a backyard mechanic to work on AC systems too. You can see how effective those laws are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I think the real target is the garage based body shops. I was talking to a guy who owned a body shop about the guy across the parking lot who owned a repair shop. Apparently the repair shop guy would do body work at his house, and apparently he did a LOT of it. But of course, he didn't have to comply with any of the regulations, so he could paint your car for 1/2 of what the legit shop could do it for. The legit guy was pretty pissed and was talking about calling the cops on the other guy. Apparently they had already had it out and the repair guy wasn't about to back down, even though what he was doing was ALREADY ILLEGAL. Yep, already illegal and this is 10 years ago now. For that reason I agree with Tim. Enforce the laws that are there, leave the hobbyists alone and crack down on people trying to skirt the law. And if you don't like the law then the appropriate response is to try to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusPuppis Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 For that reason I agree with Tim. Enforce the laws that are there, leave the hobbyists alone and crack down on people trying to skirt the law. And if you don't like the law then the appropriate response is to try to change it. This is my take on the situation. Like I said, if I could be shown CONCRETE PROOF that occasionally spraying is causing real damage - then I wouldnt be happy about it, but I'd set the gun down and just get over it. I totally agree about backyard shops and the like.. They should be dealt with, but the hobbyists out there that paints one car a year, for himself or for a close friend should be left the hell alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaparral2f Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Like everything else concerning the enviromental laws what seems to be lacking is any sence of proportion. ie:the enviromentalists choke up at the thought of cutting even one tree, while the timber industry has nightmares of leaving one tree standing. "Can't we all just get along??" BTW, Will the paint cops be happy if I promise to paint my car Green? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I looked into it further, California already has restrictions on paint, which is why we can't get certain formulations. They can cut back more chemicals but the paint industry will just have to make do with the chemicals we have left, i.e. water and corn flour. I hope you like a flakey crust on your bare steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Fellows It is times like these...if they can't see the "bird" of my middle finger, then I will kindly bend over and show 'em the full moon in raw technicolor. From what I have seen....... the protectors are incapable of protecting us. I am sick hearing about the bird flu when the bastards cannot even deliver the regular flu vaccine and the regular flu will klll a few thousand. Before it's over.. the air force in the name of security will be shooting down migratory birds and I still will not have the regualr flu shot.. incomptency and luancy going hand in hand. MY rant! Yeah something needs to be done but at whose expense and whose profit. We got the best poilticians and bureacrats that money can buy. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I thought we weren't supposed to have political discussion? Anyway, welcome to america, land of the free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 sorry fellows.. this paint crap just struck a nerve....and I needed to rant... I got my flu shot and swore off duck blood soup. When it comes time to paint the GTO project .... I will apply for a federal loan and ship it to China get it done in Mandarian Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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