Here comes trouble Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Sounds to me that mating head surfaces are not flat or either time to piss off on Felpro. Go OEM or Arizona Z offerings.. flat edge triple X quadruple check mating surfaces. ... times like these my confidence level drops.....dust your self off...(blame Mike) and try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dapiper Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I am going thru the same thing with my N42 and 86.5 mm bore custom turbo with RaceWare studs. See my other posts re head gasket, but just now pulling head for third time since Aug. Will try one last time with stock gasket and then its new motor time. Builder admitted to not decking block after cracked head in #4 cyl. I suspect this is problem. Did you? Even had OEM original gasket with contact adhesive and asbestos construction weeping on plug side. Once they begin weeping, its all down hill. Mine happened on dyno while tuning and holding cells on map up to 0 boost and 6K RPM. Never did weep on road, however. OBTW, stock gasket $88 at dealer, but looks very much like MSA. Inspected FailPro today at parts store and found fire rings quit narrow at 0.080" on block side. Did have nice adhesive though. This would not allow sufficient area for my block o-rings to engage fire ring. Stock and MSA were 0.160", quite a difference. Did not have luck with NAPA, had a smooth brown coating that leaked even when just adding antifreeze. Considered HKS metal, but was told that their 91 mm bore just too big. Block and head need to be lapped for metal style to seal. What is your bore? This time using OEM and Hylomar spray coating, like Copper-Coat only will fill up to 0.010" gap. These new OEM style are graphite and have no contact adhesive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 ...(blame Mike) and try again. ahaahha i told him those felpros will blow. as soon as i saw the miss of water on the windsheild and then heard him say "loosing power it seems".. i then smelt the coolent and said "blew the damn headgasket..." sucks but the car pulled awesome at just 8psi. i want a damn holset! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Assuming you checked the head and the block for flatness, and assembled the ARP head stud kit to spec (60ft/lb I believe), then I'll bet you $100 it was detonating. Have you hooked up a trusty ear-muff det detector to the engine? Copper pipe, hammer one end flat, drill hole. bolt to top of block on passengers side (there are two places for it on the F54 so I bolted two), run hose into cabin, drill hole in cheap ear muffs and stuff hose in. Voila. Best detonation detector you'll ever own. What timing was it running? What AFR? Oh and get an OEM gasket. They are still available. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 it could have been pinging like a mofo.. but you cant even hear it at all! car is so loud its not even funny. 3.5in open downpipe is just insane. a/f wasnt working on the msns and he didnt wanna use my wideband cuz no power scorce for it. im sure it was going way lean, just didnt smell or run rich. block and head on this engine is perfect, was built correctly and everything was done/checked. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Mike, I run a 3" open pipe with a 2.5" screamer, nice and quiet aren't they So let me get this straight, you drove an untuned (for the turbo) car, with no wideband, and no detonation detection, and you are surprised it blew a head gasket? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 no it was tuned. has a pre-tuned "tune" on the MSnS that they used on another hybridz'ers Houstoners Z car with pretty much the same mods and it was running great! im sure it was detonating also, sucks. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Pre-tuned you reckon. Lot of faith in someone with `pretty much the same' mods if you ask me. You can change a head gasket in a day. Get cracking. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 73Turbo240z Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 yes, the tune i was running was from thumpers car... F54 block/p90a head holset HY35w 3rd gen supra 440cc injectors w/ resistor packs MSnS with MSD's controlling the ignition, niether MSD controls retard functions, just amps up the spark... both are intercooled pretty much the only diff was his block was in much worse shape than mine, and he was doing 18psi passes on this tune only a week before, so we had no reason what so ever to question it given the fact i was running such a weak PSI level and we'd seen it work for his very similiar setup. and it wasn't a case of i didn't WANT the wideband... it was a case of the cigarette lighter was currently powering the laptop, which cut the LM1's powersource out. either way, i'm going to attempt to change the headgasket tommorow in 1 day, been a long time since i put that head on, so i'm sure i'm going to forget somthing and end up extreamly pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Did I see thumper mention that your car has a higher compression ratio than his? Using the same type of fuel? There are more places to get 12V from than the cigarette lighter. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 73Turbo240z Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Did I see thumper mention that your car has a higher compression ratio than his? Using the same type of fuel? There are more places to get 12V from than the cigarette lighter. Dave We thought it might, but it was that the rod/stroke ratio is different, CR is the same as a 83' ZXT with flat tops... so roughly 8.7:1 and yes, during tommorows mad dash to change the headgasket i'm going to hardwire a power invertor as well so the cigarette lighter will always be availible to the LM-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcelectronics Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I have just read this post, “and were trying to figure out why the power was cutting up above 5500rpm...†this sounds like it was running lean! this WILL lead to detonation and this Will blow the gasket in a heart beat!!! You cant run a "Pre-tuned" set up on a turbo motor especially if you don’t know what Comp. Ratio!!! you actually have???? There is such a fine line on any turbo install, you MUST tune for the engine you have, or you will be repairing it again!!! Chuckie:twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 73turbo240z, All good. I wish you the best of luck changing the head gasket over. Usual stuff, don't forget to chock the timing chain tensioner etc etc which you obviously already know. I'm sure you'll get it back together again for christmas. Make yourself a set of those headphone detonation detectors. You can hear everything and it'll cost you all of $10. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 The tune I put on jeremy's car was very very rich. On my car at 6-8psi my a/f ratio was at 12:1 and then I richened it up 10% for jeremy's car just to be on the safe side. The reason we think it went lean is because he was having problems with his injectors getting enough power. He accidently put a too small of a fuse inline. It finally blew and thats when he reliazed the injectors weren't get enough power. On the timing issue I double checked the timing was spot on with my advancing timing light so we are sure it wasn't that. It still could have been detonation but unfortantely we won't ever know what caused it. Good luck tom I should be over tom night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 73Turbo240z Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 USe a HKS steel head gasket on the next go round and invest the $60.00 for an ARP head stud kit. Just for everyones clarification... the car had the following before the fel-blow took dump... F54 block P90a head L24 rods L28 crank AZ car pistons ARP headstud kit ARP main kit ARP rod bolt kit MSnS with a proven tune (though it's up for debate on CR differences obviously) 440cc supra turbo injectors w/ resistor packs 60mm throttle setup FMIC setup on 2.5" plumbing and the ever popular, fel-blow gasket there is now a 1mm HKS gasket sitting on my fender, along with a can of copper spray, and a fresh new tube of permatex blue sealant, i aim not to have this happen again for a VERY LONG TIME... course i said that the 1st time too... another problem were kicking around is voltage, in order to truely figure out if it's a factor, i need to install stock pulleys, and i don't have a stock crank pulley anywhere in the garage that i can tell... so if anyone has one they'd be willing to part with that will work w/ my 83' F54 block, drop me a line, pending someone buying my AZ car pullies i cannot afford a euro dampner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v80z Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I never used any copper or any sealant with my HKS head Gasket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 you can get 1mm 1.5mm and 2mm Nismo gaskets from courtesy neissan. I got min ein jsut a couple days they had them all in stock. Sounds like you might want to the lookign at a 2mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Listen to kcelectronics. Do not assume, that the timing is accurate Do not assume that the mixture is OK. Every motor is different. We all know what happens when you ***-U-ME. I've taken maps from one car that I thought was almost identical in setup, and ran it in another car. The map was totally wrong. If I had just taken it out for a ride and stomped on it, something would have blown for sure. Calibrate your timing, then make fiine adjustments, test, adjust, test, adjust, etc. etc. It takes time to get one of these setups tuned correctly. With the amount of $ you have invested, take your time and be conservative in you tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 the car wasnt rich.. i can tell ya that. car deff has a problem with voltage.. its being underdriven alot! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest norm[T12SDSUD] Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 I wish I had enough fngers on my hands for the times that I have warned people NOT to use SHITTY AZZ FEL PRO headgaskets made by commie trolls in trollvillesky!! later,Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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