speeding tickets

[Lockjaw]

I think you are missing a major opportunity with your son, and I got news for you, unless you forbid him to drive the Z or only let him drive it when you are with him, he will find out how fast it goes. Kids have a natural curiosity that has to be satisfied, and they do not have the ability to grasp the concept of their limited mortality at his age, IMO.

 

The other thing is this. I can't remember enough of what was said about trying to get out of a ticket thru careful choice of words to put it into play, and neither can the rest of us, except for the author.

 

I think you should understand that there is a general feeling people have about getting over on the police. If there wasn't, there would not have been so many Smokey and the Bandit movies, the Dukkes of Hazzard, The Cannonball Run, and I am sure there are others.

 

Yeah street racing is illegal in every state in the union. You have done it by your own admission, and I guess if you have changed your ways, good for you. If you don't like people posting kill stories, don't read them, or put a post in theirs saying that what they did is illegal.

 

Look at the announcements section where there is a big get together at the Drag Strip in Montgomery AL this month. If we were all a bunch of lawless crazy street racing fools, why would the thing be going on at a drag strip?

 

The best quote I have ever heard on this subject goes something like this. "Let he who is sinless cast the first stone".

[Kevin Shasteen]

What Nathan and many others have touched on is my whole entire point. How can you put an emphasis on "Accountability" when in reality all you are doing is "Throwing Money" at a problem.

 

By throwing money at the problem (paying the fine) you are allowing money to be the solution. Can you really look an accident victim in the eyes, say a victim whose lost their leg because of yours or my reckless behavior, and say, "Well, now that my insurance has settled w/you for 100k ALL IS FINE-DONT YOU THINK(?), go hobble and whine elsewhere?" Of course it isnt ok. The individual we harm will not only have emotional scars but possibly physical scars if injuries resulted. Money, as in a fine (paying a citation) or Insurance Settlements wont bring that leg back, can you really put a price on a leg.

 

Insurance by its very nature "Assumes the Risk" and "Liability" for you-again removing "Personal Accountability" from the eqution & transferring it to a third party...your Insurance Company.

 

So money is not the solution; money has been "allowed" to replace "personal accountability" in the equation.

 

Why? I dont know; but I dont accept the "Its the law-so just shut up & obey...now sign here" theory.

 

This is where I'm coming from. While I was commuting a good distance to/from the insurance company I worked for for 12 years, there was a "Municipality" out in the middle of nowhere-that cruised the main hwy between two larger towns. This municipality only existed to write citations; this was not my opinion nor my friends opinion. This town was a Judge Roy Bean set up.

 

My friend received a ticket for speeding (1-5mph's) over the speed limit..thus no flesh-n-blood "Accusor". Who was injured; no one. Did the "possibility" of an accident exist because my friend exceeded the speed limit; well of course-the possibility exists everyday that the sky might fall...but it doesnt, and yes-that local municipality was in "authority" over its residents and the "laws existed to regulate those driving thru". So the law is the law-sit down & shut up & just do what you are told.

 

My friend decided he wasnt going to be their chump. He said no; they arrested him (Without a Warrant-simply because he wouldnt play their game). They impounded his truck, forced him to sit in jail till a judge (Roy Bean) could see him. $1200 later my friend is out. My friend decides to sue them. The municipality gets a lawyer who is savvy on constitutional issues. The municipaility learns real fast just how expensive a Constitutional Atty can be. They attempt to settle w/my friend out of court.

 

Later, more and more people begin taking this municipality to court-until it gets the attention of the Texas Rangers. Then in comes the Texas Rangers to do an investigation. The Texas Rangers eventually shut down this "Lawful Municipality". So justice, in the eyes of the people, was accomplished.

 

I would like to know-that if the "Law is the Law" then why did the Texas Rangers shut down this municipality?

 

The point being, just because a law exists-doesnt make it a good one. If you wish to challenge it you can do so at the point of origin, ground zero-when the citation is being written, or you can challenge it in court (kangaroo court) where justice means "Sit down and shut up" and "its the Law so do what I tell you".

 

If enough people would not have said, "No More" to the municipality that I spoke of earlier, then they would still be out there writing their citations.

 

BTW-it came out in court that those "Officers" with the "Badges" on their chests, who also took "Oaths" were being paid strictly by Commision on the tickets they wrote...sounds fair to me; quite similar to some towns who have a "Quota" on code enforcement. Quota's while "alledgedly Lawful" can and many times go too far. So, again where is that fine line drawn?

 

I will also admit I like the "I'm telling you" forum also...and yes it is important to teach impressionable youths what personal accountability really is; but you cant teach them by keeping them ignorant of the law-ordiance whatever slant you want to throw on it.

 

I also agree that we (drivers) should take a real test at a driver's school. Prior to my legally being able to drive-I got my truck from dad; of which I had to repair it mechanically (blood-sweat-tears) which gave me a sence of value. I remember taking my truck in the back pasture & practicing hard accelerations, power braking, what happened when I did donuts; how close could I get to a fence post when parking. So not only had I been driving tractors since I was 12 or 13 I now had practical experience w/my truck-in a manner most kids will never have.

 

I am my brothers keeper, and I owe each one of you the right to an expectation that I will not endanger your lives while you are travelling/driving (whatever you wish to call it) on the highways and byways.

 

If the system were to put an emphasis on personal accountability rather than a dollar amount-then perhaps there would be more individuals giving more credence to the car next to them-instead of ignoring them & looking for the first moment to cut them off; who knows.

 

I do think it is a good idea that conversations like this one come up in all circles; the more people that make it a quest to "aid" our system into being a better one (by involving themselves in politics or by changing your thinking-morally speaking) then our society will better itself. If this were not such an important issue then it would have never gone on for three pages.

 

Thinking about it is the first step.

 

I agree and understand the issues presented by those who have disagreed w/me. I understand where you are coming from.

 

I didnt create the "Offer/Acceptance-Rejection" docrtine; the "Law Merchant" created it and it was both our State and Federal Representatives that allowed that doctrine to be implemented into our society...not me.

 

There appears to be public officials that wish to better a town with this sytem and then there are public officials that only wish to increase their bank accounts with this system; one is good while the other is not good.

 

It seems to be a paradox as to where that line is drawn.

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

[Guest Anonymous]

If all the lawful citizens have not figured it out, the traffic courts across this fair land are money markets operated to collect user fee revenue. You do not stand a chance and are forbidden to have a jury trial by your peers in traffic court..In refusing to pay my simple traffic tickets, my driver's license was suspended for five years. To appeal the suspension, I would be required to pay the fine before I could get into a higher appeals Court without the benfit of any jury. Then the initial court turned my fines over to a collection agency for collection (double jepordy). When my license is renewed, I will pay extra to an insurance company.Had I been a first time drunk driver, my license could have been reinstated in one year after I paid my (bribes) fees to the the money market revenue court.A well run revenue producing bureacracy that turns a profit to invest in further bureacratic entrenchment into our lives. Where can you purchase a franchise for such a money making venture.Justice in the land of the free may depend on how much you can afford to pay. (OJ Simpson -remember him and the dream team) Right on Kevin!

[Pop N Wood]

Alright here I go again.

 

Not to disrespect you, I am sure there is more to your story than what is in this brief posting, but from what you wrote, Tomahawk Z, it looks like you made your own bed. The reason the drunk driver will get his license back before you is because, unlike you, he is not refusing to play the game. If your insurance is higher, it is probably because of your driving record and not your refusal to recognize the legal process. If you made a stand to protest some wrong that was perpetrated against you, then surely you had to know there could be a price to pay.

 

And Kevin, your story about the municipality that came under such close scrutiny is a prime example that our system WORKS. Case in point, California has laws to protect against speed traps. When I lived in LA there was one town that risked having all of their speed limits rendered null and void because the town had not performed a traffic speed survey to ensure, by state law, that their limits actually reflected the speed people traveled. Nobody had to go to jail or write lengthy diatribes with Every Other Word In Title Case or Quotations to make this happen.

 

But the one thing that I want to stress over and over again is that refusing to sign the ticket accomplishes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! If you want an audience to argue the righteousness of the laws, then traffic court is your forum.

 

One last note. It is very easy to criticize something, but offering a better solution is another case altogether. Come up with a simple solution and reality will bite you in the a$$. People can be very unreasonable. People will purposely try to break the system. I think everybody involved in this discussion has stated they feel traffic laws have to be enforced in some form or the other. If you guys can’t see why money is the ideal form of enforcement then you are playing games. And yes, people on both sides of the law can abuse the system, but as Kevin pointed out the system generally can be made to work.

[Lockjaw]

Actually Jim, in Tomohawks case, Oregon probably has mandatory insurance laws, and when your license is revoked, which I bet his was, you have to have some sort of insurance. We call it Sr22 in Alabama.

 

If his deal is anything like ours, he will have to have the insurance in force before he gets his license, and he will have to maintain it for a period of time or they will take his license away again. Alabama does that to DUI people, uninsured motorists if you pursue them, and I am sure for multiple ticket offenders and FTA's on tickets.

 

I have heard about the deal Kevin was talking about, and I think any sort of quota/commission deal indicates a revenue generating plan, not law enforcement. I know police officers in Auburn who did not like their quota system and got in trouble every month for not making quota. It was not technically a quota since they only had to meet the average of tickets written by all the officers, but just the same it encouraged ticketing to stay out of trouble.

 

We had some law passed that only state troopers could write tickets on the interstates in alabama to keep some of these "municipalities" from generating revenue. Guess what, when there was a wreck on the interstate, they told everyone to call a state trooper. Nothing like waiting an hour and a half to get a trooper to write you an accident report on a minor fender bender.

 

If you want to fight the system because you were treated wrong, or are not guilty, I am all for it. If the system says you are guilty and you need to pay up, pay your fine and consider yourself lucky. I don't know what your fines would have cost Tomohawk, but 5 years of not driving would have made me think about paying them and being a little more careful.

 

Yes I still don't like cops, generally speaking, and I still have no problem doing whatever you need to do to get out of a ticket, but when the judge says guilty, you should pay up. In truth, maybe I just have an issue with authority figures, or maybe it is because I have had a couple of tickets that the cop was completely wrong about giving me. I still paid my fines. Am I jaded, yes. Do I get pissed about it some times, hell yes.

 

Here is one other thing to think about too. I know someone mentioned this. I don't want to be in an accident that is my fault in which someone gets injured.

 

I just witnessed one the other day where some impatient, lowlife scumbag driving on a revoked license with no insurance pulled out in front of a young 6 weeks preganant girl and her friend, and they totaled their Pathfinder, and it is by a miracle she did not hit me and my wife head on because if she did, ol' LJ would probably still be in the hospital, if not dead. They went to separate hospitals in different ambulances, and when the driver left, she was not feeling things in her legs, and could not feel my hand on her leg as me and another guy tried to get her to be still and not move until the paramedics got there.

 

See the guy who caused this accident is never going to amount to anything, he is never going to make any money, and he probably has no assets worth taking, so this girl, her parents, and her insurance company are screwed. Guess who pays for it, we do thru higher insurance costs.

 

Anyway, just another perspective on things.

[Mikelly]

Well I have to waid in here again. DAMN. OK, this IS the I'm telling you category and you have the RIGHT to let your hair hang down as long as there is no flaming... AviatorX has helped me in times of need, and has listened to my bitching about the wife's EX-husband, and kid issues... and I value his opinion. However, I have to disagree to this point.

 

Books & records have been burned. Rock stars have been sued unsuccessfully. We're not providing a bad example here... I, above anyone else have NOT condoned the excesive speeding and wrecklessness of today's youth, which by the way was yesterday's and yester-year's youth... My point in the beginning of all this was to explain that we need to teach out kids how to better drive since they are gonna speed... Didn't WE?

 

And what if I hit 145mph on my bike tonight... Had I gone through radar, I would most certainly have gone to jail. However, I'm not condoning the activity, just relaying the fact. That is wrong in the sense that I did it, but is it wrong in relaying it? Am I truly responsible for the actions of others???

 

I'm responsible for way to many things that I can impact change on to worry about impacting the impressionable minds of every kid who may stumble across this thread... I'm parent to two, not 22 million.

 

Guys, this has been a well rounded thread by and large. Lets not totally ruin it now.

 

Mike

[Kevin Shasteen]

I tell you what, IMHO, my most humble opinion; I would not be so adamant against the License if, as someone mentioned earlier, that we all had to attend and pass a drivers school. Not just drivers ed but a school where evasive measures are taught.

 

I would even be prepared to pay for it myself and would much rather pay that excessive amount to some driving school; at least then it would be helping a private business, even though I know the costs would far out weigh the measily $15 every 7 years for license renewal that we pay now. As for now we simply pay the fee for a license and inspection sticker. I wouldnt even mind if that license was only given after our certificate of achievement from the driving school had been obtained. I also think it would be a good idea if we all had to look at a few hundred fatality scenes, not including the people who died, but simply their cars that were wrecked...this too would give a little importance on what might happen if you are irresponsible.

 

Yes, this implies more control-but its intent seems better placed. I think the added measures would ensure that most everyone was a safer driver; as opposed to just paying the fee for tags. As we stand now, the license & inspection fees arent really doing that much for safety. We all know places where you can go somewhere and get an inspection w/out going thru the "safety checks", at least in small towns there always seems to be a few of these shops around.

 

BTW: my friend was arrested "FOR NOT SIGNING THE TICKET"...that is what got the ball rolling for which he followed up later with the suit; which lay claim that he, my friend, was arrested w/out a pre-existing arrest warrant. Had he signed the citation-he would have had no standing for not paying the citation. So, you can fight a wrong at its inception, wait till later & fight it in court; or do both. Or, teach yourself how to reject an offer to contract-do so and then never worry about it. If the local municipality exceeds their authority and arrests you-then take them to court. It is a personal decision.

 

If you choose to reject their ticket-not signing the citation isnt good enough. You must also write on that citation that you have rejected their offer and mail it back to them; which complets the rejection.

 

The point is that if the officer doesnt have an arrest warrant-then they cant LEGALLY arrest you unless you have harmed an individual or damaged their property so much so that it warrants being arrested. As a reminder-we are speaking of an Injurious Claim whereby there is no Flesh-n-Blood Accusor.

 

Public officials are servants; they have Duties and Responsibilities for which they can perform w/out permission from you or I; as those Duties and Responsibilities come with the Job Title. If and when they act outside of the scope of their Duties and Responsibilities..such as in arresting one of us sovereigns; then they need a "Delegation of Authority" from their superiors to do so, as in an arrest warrant. This arrest warrant, search warrant ect., doesnt require our signature-why? Because that is a law that has teeth-it doesnt require our signature. If and when that delegation of authority doesnt exist; then the acting officer has just acted outside of their scope of authority, such as in a case whereby they are going to arrest someone for not signing that citation/negotiable instrument/contract. Your signature on that instrument is an agreement to contract w/that municipality...the agreement being that you accept their ordinance violation and agree to pay; even tho you dont work for that corporate municipality nor do you live in their city limits; therefore they need your signature.

 

Jim, I dont understand why you dont see the citation as not only a presentment but a contract once it is signed. You as an atty had to go to law school somewhere; you know good and well that 60% of your training was about different contracts, when a contract is valid as opposed to when it is not, and definitions of legal words. The rest of your schooling was about fault, ethics and procedure and negotiations.

 

You know or should have known what it means to make a presentment, and that acceptance requires your signature. You know good and well that accepting a presentment, a negotiable instrument, means that the acceptor has agreed to pay on behalf of the holder of that presentment....if you dont know what a presentment is then I apologize for assuming that you do.

 

However; without one's signature-then that instrument becomes an incomplete instrument and then by being an incomplete instrument-there is no promise to pay.

 

Perhaps a presentment and negotiable instruments would be a good place for anyone to begin their sutdy if they wish to understand contracts.

 

Jim, if my quotes and brackets offends you (certainly an insignificant offence IMO) then I apologize.

 

It cetainly is not my intention to offend anyone-regardless of how insignificant that offense is...I will try to minimize my quotes and brackets from here on out; regardless of the forum.

 

My official apology to everyone here who has been offended by my quotes and brackets.

 

Jim, I do agree with you that we do need to be regulated in some manner, we as a Nation have proven that we are incapable of handling our freedom w/out harming others. I just dont like the abuses of authority when they happen; this is what spurred my quest for understanding the entire process.

 

There does seem to be a paradox; we as Americans are free, even free to contract into jurisdictions that limit our freedom. So if we are free, even to reject an offer to contract in a legal traffic citation scenario-then where is the compelling force to regulate ourselves? It seems that our freedom, which is our greatest attribute as an American, also seems to be our worse virtue-as in the few who go out of their way to abuse their freedoms ( frustrated); where oh where should that line be drawn? I think the line is drawn between choosing to be subject to the state or being sovereign-which means being personally accountable for your actions...as in acting responsible in all settings.

 

Isnt it funny that controversial issues always seem to come down to ethics and morals; as in those who have them and those who dont.

 

For the record, I have only had two bad experiences w/a police officer upon being pulled over; and my problem with those two examples were with their attitude of which I never gave them a reason to have. All other officers have always been professional; even the officer that gave me the speeding ticket I didnt deserve; he and I spoke for about 30 minutes-he was utmost professional. I actually enjoyed the conversation-I didnt like the outcome in getting the ticket, but I liked the fact that he didnt mind the Q&A. This was the citation I rejected.

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

[aviatorx]

I'm hardly the one to be preaching moral standards, and I don't claim higher ground than anyone else here. I perhaps should have tempered my comments in the greater context of having related this thread to my own son rather than trying to reign in the obvious freedom we all have to relate their own experiences here.

 

I do appreciate the huge desire to lean heavily on the right foot of a well tuned, home built sportscar...I even envy those who are paving new ground in some of their transformations. I just get to wondering about the effect of having an impressionable youth (my son) reading about street drags, highway races, and fishtailing through the parking lots combined with his longing to get my own project completed. I do want him to appreciate and share in that effort, and I do realize that keeping him safe in that Z will be a lot of my own responsibility, but largely in concert with his own sensibility.

[Kinked_Chrome]

Being one of the "impressionable youth" (17 and a senior in highschool) and eager to drive fast, spin the tires, fish tail, and otherwise drive the hell out my LT1 260 (which is running successfully, only being held up by the brakes), I have been eagerly watching this thread with great interest. Especially since I'm taking US Government this year. I've put year of blood and sweat into my car, researching, wrenching, and what not. I can't say that i will drive it responsibly, as that is very subjective, but i know that I won't drive wrecklessly. I have put way to much effort into that car to do so. While I may not know all about every driver technique, i know a lot about driving. Such as apex's, limit of adhesion, and other little things.

 

I fully understand where Kevin is coming from, as all of my tickets have certainly been quite subjective. If I had known better I could have easily gone to court and gotten out of them. Unfortunatley I have had my license suspended twice. Makes me sound like quite the stereotypical teenage driver, and I can already here someone thinking "well, serves you right". The citations were as follows: 2 for speeding in a school zone (34 in a 20 which was a 4 lane road, and 31 in a 20), one for following too close (I was in a wreck, i later found out the driver in front of me was gawking (sp?) at some girls I know, and the last for failing to come to a complete stop at a 4 way. Three of which I was all by myself on the road, except for the officer of course.

 

I think that it is perfectly fair for you "old timers" (no offense implied) to stereotype teenage driving and behavior because I fully understand where you guys are coming from. I just want everyone to know that there are a few teens that respect what they have and know how to drive it and when the line is crossed. I also think that Aviatorx should have a little more faith in his kid, because if has put a fraction of the work in I have in my car, then he will value and respect highly. Anyway, please don't delete this thread, it was been kicking over a lot of rocks in my little teenage mind.

 

Kevin Sing

[Guest LAYTON]

tomohawk ,i here ya i just had a realy bad weekend for the man

i was smoking up the gorge on 84 goin to a concert at the "gorge at george wash. st ) and i got off at 97 just past the dalles and im half way across the columbia river and i the rear view i see a cop franticly getting off the free exit and coming across the bridge

i hadnt passed any on the side of the freeway so i go across the river and he seems to be after me,hmmm well he was i had passed him in the oppisite lane 10 miles back that bastard kept goin till he found a over pass then hauled way more ass then i ever thought of just to get me he had gunned me at 85 (big deal) and all that for a big pursuit he was so amped and p.o.'d that he was shaking like a virgin when he aproached the car and real worried looking was it that big of deal no he seemed to calm down a bit when he realized i didnt even know he was coming ,how f**ked is that he must have had to be going 30-40mph faster to catch up then chease me over state lines to give me to stupid speeding ticket i had a clean record before what happened to the oh i see your not a daily offender slow it down your in the middle of now where warning holy crap im 31 years old driving the family altima how bad do they need the money christ id cut em a check rather than be treated like a thug just for speeding a lil bit on top of all that my wife day after we got home was at a intersection in left turn lane was in middle of intersection light changed she was help up from one of those sudden bottle neck senarios and the light changed on her someone was right behind her not giving her the option of backing up ,so she went on with her left hander and then was stopped and cited for running a red light here in salem or . what kinda **** is that just when i was getting a more mature respect for the officers and didint quite think they were all just jack a**es know i feel 18 agian my heart jumpes everytime i see one

then i look down at the speedo and see im not doing anything wrong and go on but man what a big load a sh** i could see if i had the loud a** 240 sideways everyday all the time but shes still getting put back together from the ground up i ve done

almost on the road btw 2 more weeks anthe paint and zg flares look killer !!!!!

[Guest LAYTON]

all that and i wanst even in the gimme a ticket yellow car !

[denny411]

The most ridiculous ticket I ever got, was for a stop sign violation. At 6am out in the middle of BFE, I come to a 4 way stop. I can see clearly for almost a mile in each direction. so I coast to the sign,slowing to about 20mph,and make a quick doubletake in each direction. I can see one set of headlights in the distance,(no problem, looks clear to me) so I accelerate to the posted speed of 55. A mile down the road I get pulled over(by a state trooper,the only car on the road) and cited.

[Guest ZDreamin]

well after reading all stuff i just needed to reply, i am young college boy in az. as to not signing a ticket i did that a few years back, all the cop did was write "failure to sign" on the ticket, no biggie.

 

but i have a bad expierence to share about cops, about a month ago, me and two friends piled into my hombre to go out, a cop followed me for about a mile, i noticed he was following me so we turned into a neighborhood and proceeded to a friends house. we stopped there, him still following, when we stopped he turned on his lights. i know i had done nothing wrong yet he hasseled us, shined the spotlight on my friend and asked us what we doing we said "visiting a friend" asked for my license and proof of insurence without saying anything we did, he even asked who we were seeing, i guess he thought it was a ploy or something. anyway after the girl comes out of house with her mother, the cop still hasseling me he lets me go and then tells me the reason we were pulled over....he thought i looked lost because i had turned on my turn signal without changing lanes... probaly had nothing to do with the fact i have wild spikey hair and am young...but seriously that just pissed me off that i got pulled over for "looking lost", but i didnt dare to contest his BS cause he has all the power...i shouldve gotten his badge number and wrote a complaint.

 

but i know all cops arent bad, my dad was one for 22 years in new york city, and i hope to be one in a few years.

 

just to share a funny story

 

this past weekend i was wandered the college hot spot in tempe, mill avenue at 1 am when the bars let out...drunks are so funny, anyways there is a group of college kids one drinking some substance out a glass on the street and come down the road are 2 bike cops and 2 cops on horses, the kid throws his drink on the gorund and walks off. the cop sees it questions his buddy, and this dumb ass drunk kid smacks the horses ass and it jumps, funniest thing ever, i think the cop made the horse trip the drunk, he went face first into the ground, then the cop said "get up u little pussy" and asks why he smacked his horse, this all happened like 5 feet away from me and my buddy, needless to say he was put in handcuffs. we shall him in handcuffs about 5 minutes later also, but best of all this kid is getting questioned and one horse takes a big dump and both take huuuuuuuge leaks, not only is this kid drunk, being arrested for assualting a police officer(an assumption), but has to smell the horse **** and piss, hehehe, all after the first week of class at asu, his parents will love his phone call home....."mom i was drunk, smacked a horses ass, and got arrested, come bail me out"

 

well that is my rant, my rave, and my hopefully humorous addition to this post, now its time to do some homework due in a few hours...

 

Sean Kruger

Sophmor at ASU(thats not how sophmor is spelled

or is it

Justice Studies Student

[Guest ZDreamin]

another good run in with the law, back while i was a senior in high school after a foot ball game, me and a bunch of friends were bored, we had a a 3 wheeled power wheels toy, u know the small cars kids drive that run off bateries. anywho we get the brilliant idea to go to a park with a big hill and push people down the hill while video taping, that gets lame after a while so we find two trash cans, some orange and white verticle workzone signs, and some other sign, and push the thing as fast we can into them with people on it, me and 2 friends were the only ones brave or maybe stupid enough to do it, needless to say it wasnt smart, and it hurts to fly into **** at like 10-15 miles an hour maybe faster and tumbled after hitting **** , but it was fun, well we had like 20 people there it was maybe 11 o clock and a cop comes to inquire about what we are doing, he asks us not to video tape him, and tell him what we are doing then we demonstrate, he just laughs and i think he called us crazy too. it was great we offered him a turn, he politely declined and we went on our business. this guy was cool didnt say to leave or anything didnt yell at us for taking the signs, so there are cool cops out there just remember that...

 

i hoped u enjoyed this story, if u did i will share what happened to the power wheels after it survived that night...

 

sean

[Mikelly]

THANK YOU Kinked_Chrome! I think you put it all into perspective for us...

 

Glad I followed my instinct and didn't turn this one off...

 

Mike

[Guest Pegasus76]

Looks like this subject has aroused a lot of sleeping feelings about the law. The first time I saw this topic it only had about 17 replies...Now it has moved up to 74 in about a week...75 including mine Nevertheless, this is an awesome topic and me, wanting to have a career in law soon, am having an excellent time reading and being enlightened by the you guys are creatin

[Guest bluex_v1]

I am relatively young, building a v8 zcar, and I speed...my opinions for whatever they are worth:

"I am a better driver than the average person." Of course every breathing human being describes themselves this way right? However I think the skills of traffic threat anticipation are far more important than knowing things like skid recovery. (knowing your limits of adhesion is more likely to save your own ass than it is another innocent person following the rules of the road) Being able to read how other drivers tend to maneuver and react and how traffic flows behave given different weather and road characteristics is something you can only learn from experience driving with and around others. (ie, 'I know people are always making a right on red at this intersection and cutting across all lanes to get to the bait shop ahead to my left and this guy has a boat in tow behind him, so I better slow down')

 

Obviously not all speed limits are fair for all drivers in all vehicles under all weather and traffic conditions. They are the authorities' best guess. There are plenty of stretches of road I drive that the speed limits are painfully slow, the road is straight, visibility is good, traffic is light. When I speed, it is for short durations and only when it is safe, at least most of the time. If I honestly feel that I am driving at a rate of speed and style that will not degrade my ability to avoid an accident to that of the average driver under average conditions, then I do not have any ethical issues with doing so. I truly feel I am a better driver when I am speeding just slightly, because I am way more alert to everything going on around me than I am when simply following the guy in front of me going the speed limit..my mind tends to wander and I go on autopilot. When I am driving aggresively to any extent, I do value others' lives above my own...ie, I guage my speed to whether or not I will be able to react in time if there happens to be a car pulling out of a driveway just around this sharp turn, not whether or not I will lose it and fly off the road into a utility pole. If I end up losing control and causing a fatal accident, I hope to god it is only me who gets killed.

 

IMHO, if you are speeding and you aren't aware and alert enough to spot/detect a cop and react before he gets you, then you deserve some form of punishment because you were probably pushing it too far. If you are not skilled enough that you can react in time to police presence (or any other risks), you are not 'speeding responsibly'.

 

When it comes to just playing the game and paying the fine vs. disputing it, you have to do a cost/benefit/probabilty assessment for your given situation. How valuble is your time? Do you have the fine in your pocket, or do you have to sell something to pay it? If your principles dictate liberty, do you feel more free having faught an unjust ticket or more free having just spent the money and gone on your way to do what ever you want instead of attending x# of hearings, etc. It is rediculous to argue what someone should do because everyone's situation is different. If I had the time, the money, a lawyer, and a bus route that went by my house, I'd probably fight every damn ticket I received just because I disagree with the punishment of revenue generation. You want to punish speeders, then give them x hours of community service helping kids at a school crossing or putting up street signs or something!!

[Pop N Wood]

BTW, I am not a lawyer. I am an engineer. Everything I know about signing tickets comes from court ordered traffic school(s). The last of those was several years ago, but they did occur in a couple of different states.

[Mikelly]

...And I'm NOT a Lawyer, and I don't play one on TV! This weekend I'm playing the Carpenter from the Diet Coke commercial from a couple years back... Atleast that's the role my wife is picturing for me...

 

God knows what she will have in mind next week... These role play games are getting a little out of hand...

Mike

[Lockjaw]

I am not a lawyer, but all my friends say I should be one since I like to argue.

 

I am glad some of the younger guys have admitted they are "sticks in the mud" with their driving antics.

 

I personally love to spin tires, and I really leaving two really long black marks on the road, and then shifting into second, and leaving more. I still don't like cops, generally, and I am sorry, but I sometimes really like the idea of getting over on a cop.

 

So all of you other people behave, and I am going to try to do the same.