kcelectronics Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 TimZ, you are correct the heater takes hot water from the back of the head and returns it to the inlet side of the water pump. So looping it effectively dumps hot water back into the cooler water from the bottom of the Radiator to the Pump, which would theoretically cause the water to be hotter, although it probably doesn't add much! But on a HOT day with the heater tap in the loop turned OFF(unless you are a masochist), this would block the flow and on a cool day with the heater tap turned ON the added extra heat into the pump wouldn't cause a problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianZ Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 does anyone even know which way the water flows in their car's loop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcelectronics Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 The diagram above from the factory manual clearly shows the water flow???? why the question???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 TimZ, you are correct the heater takes hot water from the back of the head and returns it to the inlet side of the water pump. So looping it effectively dumps hot water back into the cooler water from the bottom of the Radiator to the Pump, which would theoretically cause the water to be hotter, although it probably doesn't add much! But on a HOT day with the heater tap in the loop turned OFF(unless you are a masochist), this would block the flow and on a cool day with the heater tap turned ON the added extra heat into the pump wouldn't cause a problem! Exactly. My main concern is that the heater, along with the thermostat (in our case it's basically a variable orifice water valve) will add a pretty large amount of restriction in the path, so in addition to the cooling that takes place in the heater core, there will be considerably less water routed back to the inlet with the heater in the loop. A piece 5/8" host in it's place will add almost no flow resistance, and no cooling whatsoever, so the two situations are not equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed260Z Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 how did you get the rear one to poitn forward? mine points to my firewall so i have this huge looping thing that rest against my batterie It screws in, so unscrew it put some tape on the threads, and screw it back in until it's tight & it's pointing in the right direction. does anyone even know which way the water flows in their car's loop? The water for the heater comes out of the tap (the one disscused above) Into the heater and back to the 3 way connector and then to the W/P inlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I don't see how putting the loop in is any different than running the car with the heater on, it's doing the same thing. Back in the dayz, i used to turn my heater on to cool the engine off when sitting in houston traffic, so if anything I would guess this would cool the engine. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I don't see how putting the loop in is any different than running the car with the heater on' date=' it's doing the same thing. Back in the dayz, i used to turn my heater on to cool the engine off when sitting in houston traffic, so if anything I would guess this would cool the engine. -Ed[/quote'] No, it's really not the same - see my previous post (2 posts before yours). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillZ260 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 My question is why are you removing the heater? I know it gets cold in IL! Have you ever driven a car w/ no heat? I only had to do it once... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 No, it's really not the same - see my previous post (2 posts before yours). ...this would block the flow and on a cool day with the heater tap turned ON the added extra heat into the pump wouldn't cause a problem! OK.. your bypassing the heater valve, yes.. less restriction but effectively is the same as running the heater in the ON position constantly. If you feel you need addes restricion put a piece of 5/8 OD pipe in the line.. that will neck down the ID and increase youre "restriction". But logically thinking about this... the water used to go into the core air blows over the evaporator... thereby cooling the water at the same time.. then the water gets dumped back in. But the water that was going into the core.. was the outlet water from the radiator so assuming the car has 180 thermostat... with a good radiator your lookn' at 160 deg inlet temp to the core. So if you dump 160 deg water back into the block without going through the heater and all of it's mess of hoses... essential your dumping still colder than operating temp water into the engine. See where i'm going with this? It's not like you pump is going to be starved for water. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 OK.. your bypassing the heater valve' date=' yes.. less restriction but effectively is the same as running the heater in the ON position constantly. If you feel you need addes restricion put a piece of 5/8 OD pipe in the line.. that will neck down the ID and increase youre "restriction". But logically thinking about this... the water used to go into the core air blows over the evaporator... thereby cooling the water at the same time.. then the water gets dumped back in. But the water that was going into the core.. was the outlet water from the radiator so assuming the car has 180 thermostat... with a good radiator your lookn' at 160 deg inlet temp to the core. So if you dump 160 deg water back into the block without going through the heater and all of it's mess of hoses... essential your dumping still colder than operating temp water into the engine. See where i'm going with this? It's not like you pump is going to be starved for water. -Ed[/quote'] No, I really don't. I think you have the flow direction backwards. You will be taking hot water from the block, and running it straight back to the pump inlet, bypassing the radiator. There won't be any cooling going on in the 5/8" hose that you've used to loop everything together. The coolest point in the system is by definition the pump inlet/radiator outlet (especially so without the heater core), so if your water is coming from anyplace else, you will not be dumping "cooler" water back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 No, I really don't. I think you have the flow direction backwards. You will be taking hot water from the block, and running it straight back to the pump inlet, bypassing the radiator. I dont' want to get into a pissing contest here.. but what your saying is that the tube from the back of the block is an outlet for hot water and not an inlet. But according to your diagramn the water from the back of the block flows up and out the thermostat. Now i maybe wrong here... but I was under the impression that the long hose from the pump supplied water to the core and that the small hose to the block was the outlet from the core. so It would be acting like an inlet to the core. But like i said i could be wrong... as it would make sense for the pump to pull the water... meaning the long hose would actually be the heater core outlet and dump water in like you said. that diagramn doesn't show anything to do with the heater so it's kinda guess and tell unless somebody has pulled a hose off while running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I dont' want to get into a pissing contest here.. but what your saying is that the tube from the back of the block is an outlet for hot water and not an inlet. But according to your diagramn the water from the back of the block flows up and out the thermostat. Now i maybe wrong here... but I was under the impression that the long hose from the pump supplied water to the core and that the small hose to the block was the outlet from the core. so It would be acting like an inlet to the core. But like i said i could be wrong... as it would make sense for the pump to pull the water... meaning the long hose would actually be the heater core outlet and dump water in like you said. that diagramn doesn't show anything to do with the heater so it's kinda guess and tell unless somebody has pulled a hose off while running. Here's the pic again: From the pump' date=' the water flows to the back of the block, where it enters the head. It then flows from back to front through the head back up to the thermostat housing. The pump inlet is the lowest pressure point in the system. The pressure [i']everywhere[/i] else is higher, so the water can only flow towards the pump inlet. So yes, the fitting at the back of the head is the water outlet and the one at the front is the inlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 The pump inlet is the lowest pressure point in the system. The pressure everywhere[/i'] else is higher, so the water can only flow towards the pump inlet. So yes, the fitting at the back of the head is the water outlet and the one at the front is the inlet. Makes sense.... If i see higher temps I might put the heater valve back in just to block the flow. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Makes sense.... If i see higher temps I might put the heater valve back in just to block the flow.-Ed Why not just remove the hose and plug it? I can see no value in keeping it. All you need is two 1/2 NPT plugs at maybe $1 each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Next time i'm at Lowes I'll pick some up. I do have an F54 block... so i don't really want any unecessary additional heat. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I know this is an old thread but there is a more general discussion on head cooling here: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125186. I agree with TimZ that this not a good idea. I think this is especially true with a high HP turbo engine. It may not make a difference for lower HP L6's where the cooling system has more cooling margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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