JMortensen Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I have some rust in the LF A pillar right where the lead is, and the pass side B pillar. I want to cut this out and weld in new metal if necessary, but I don't know how to remove the lead. Been searching the archives but haven't found anything more than a passing mention from Dan Juday about removing the lead from the A and B pillars. Dan said "grind it out" in that thread. Is that dangerous? I have a mask that's suitable for organic vapors. Should I wear that? Should I actually take my grinder to it, or is there a nicer way to get in there, wire wheel or something? How about melting it off? Too much heat for the surrounding body work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2126 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 A method that is used for removing solder is as follows......Use a length of fine wired multi-strand copper cable (like an old welding cable) as a wicking media. Use a gas torch to heat up the lead. Once it starts to soften up, place the cable on the lead and continue to heat. When the copper cable gets hot enough, it will wick the lead off the pillar. Note before doing this exercise, flatten out the cable so it is relatively flat and wide....like a brush. Also, it may be necessary to use a little soldering flux on the copper cable to help draw the lead away from the pillar. Anyway Jon, its a works quite well for solder removel. On the other hand, this idea might be all wet for plain old lead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I just used a oxy/ac torch and an long handled wire brush. Would braze/brass be a better subtitute than lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 7, 2006 Author Share Posted February 7, 2006 OK I finally got sick of being sick and went out to the garage. I melted the lead out of the A pillar area where the rust was. Very easy to get out with a MAP gas torch. Pics: Apparently the lead wasn't sealed to the sheet metal and water had gotten in between, and that's how the rust started. The rust didn't look as bad as I feared when I got the lead off. With the lead in there you could just see one very corroded end of the metal. I thought there would be a big hole under there. I'm thinking I can just treat this and cover it back up. My question is with the lead. Look at the last pic. The lead sticks up at least 1/8" above the sheet metal. That's a lot of lead! Does anyone know how far up the A pillar it goes? It doesn't look like I was about to hit the end of the lead, and I went up maybe 4" from the corner. I was thinking about cutting off the drip rails (depends on how rusty the B pillar is on the other side), but I'm worried about how to blend it in or replace the lead. Can I just use plastic filler in this spot and run it right up into the lead? Should I melt it ALL off and skim the A pillar with filler instead? Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I'm guessing the lead goes up about 8-12 inches judging from the amount on the b pillar. Could be less because its on the lower section of the frame, just not too sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 7, 2006 Author Share Posted February 7, 2006 Well, I went ahead and found out exactly where the lead stops... Got tired of pussyfooting around with the body work stuff. Just started melting it out wholesale. Glad I did too. Check these pics out: Apparently when I stopped melting the lead the first time I was like 1/2" from the end of the lead at the bottom of the A pillar. In the back I found rust on both sides. I tried to take pics as best I could to show the problem, but they aren't too clear without an explanation I'm afraid. The drip rail appears to be a piece of sheet about 3" wide that is welded to the body to create the top rail for the weatherstripping, then it does a 90 degree angle and goes straight out past the top of the door and past the body line, and about 1/2" beyond the main body line does another 90 to create the drip rail. It is spot welded all the way along where the roof ends - the main curve of the roof stops, and it still has a little flange that sticks out that is spot welded to the drip rail. In the B pillar where the lead is the drip rail contines PAST the flange on the roof. And its where it passes the flange on the roof that my car has rust on both sides. I knew there was rust because that flat area in the back wasn't flat, you can kinda see it pooched out on the last two pictures. Also there was a little rust on the flange where the quarter windows get screwed in. So the plan now is to cut the drip rails off and weld them up. Then when I get back to the rusty area in the back I'm going to cut the whole thing off all the way and replace that part that attaches to the bottom of the roof where the quarter window screws in on both sides. Glad I have a CA car... I don't know how you Northeast guys do it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 This is turning into a shaving driprails thread, but here's what happened this afternoon... Cut the rear part of the drip rail off where the rust was. LOTS of rust in the rear section on the passenger side. Then I pretty much said F this and started hacking the drip rails off. Got it 80% of the way off and welded back up. Cut most of the rusty sheet metal out. Need to get the last 5" or so tomorrow, along with the last little bit of the passenger drip rail, then weld the rest of the rail and weld a patch on the roof area. Then onto the driver's side. Luckily it didn't look as bad. Pics of progress: Also stitched the lower part of the A pillar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Rather than just fill it with polyester based bog (bondo) Jon, have you looked at using an epoxy based filler to add a bit of structural strength? I'm going to see what is used for boats, they do use epoxy based fillers etc there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z kid Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I dont know how much strength the boat fillers/epoxy fillers would add because they are often a microballon type setup (very light). Another great thing about them is unlike car fillers they dont absorb water. They are also a dream to sand. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 More pics. Took me about 4 hours to finish up the passenger side rail. That included making a patch and patching the hole, welding the bit where the roof folds over in the back, grinding down the weld along the seam, and welding again where I ground right through the weld. I don't think I should mess with it anymore until I get some body filler. I'm hearing what you guys are saying about the filler. I haven't ever used filler. I've never done ANY body work at all. So I don't really know what's best, but the marine idea sounds good. Any trade names or anything like that you guys want to pass on I'd love to hear em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 West System is American, believe they have a whole range of epoxy based marine adhesives, fillers, etc. Just looking at the nooks and crannies on your job that will need finishing attention Jon, it seems to me that something a bit better than ordinary bog (bondo) would be a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 So the plan now is to cut the drip rails off and weld them up. Then when I get back to the rusty area in the back I'm going to cut the whole thing off all the way and replace that part that attaches to the bottom of the roof where the quarter window screws in on both sides. Glad I have a CA car... I don't know how you Northeast guys do it... Hope you don't mind me putting your post on a diet I was wondering about this pic... This is the portion of the roof that comes down behind the quarter windows and next to the hatch cutout, correct? In the pic, is there a re-enforcing piece of metal, or is that just light playing tricks with my eyes? I am curious because i recently noticed that the paint on my Z has cracked in this area on both sides, after installing a stiffer suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Jon, Those are good pictures showing the welds I was talking about in another thread. Someone said that the roof panel was soldered on, but I knew it was welded since I stripped the lead from my car. I used the same method you did, small torch and wire brush. I have not filled mine yet, but I was thinking about using Metal 2 metal (I think that is what it is called). It is an Evercoat product designed to be applied directly to metal. It is filled with aluminum I believe, and very strong (I used it on my quarter also). The downside to it is that it is difficult to sand, it is so hard. Other than that though, it appears to be a great epoxy type product. Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hope you don't mind me putting your post on a diet I was wondering about this pic... This is the portion of the roof that comes down behind the quarter windows and next to the hatch cutout' date=' correct? In the pic, is there a re-enforcing piece of metal, or is that just light playing tricks with my eyes? I am curious because i recently noticed that the paint on my Z has cracked in this area on both sides, after installing a stiffer suspension.[/quote'] Very common for the paint in that area to crack. I've heard that the lead does a better job expanding and contracting than bondo, so it supposedly doesn't crack as easily. I'm doing a roll bar and I'm going to tie it into the roof, so hopefully that combined with all the stitch welding I've done will prevent the cracking. As far as a reinforcing piece of metal I'm not sure what you mean, but there are a couple pieces of metal there. Theres the roof piece, the B pillar piece, and the drip rail piece. The roof extends into the drip rail until the top of the B pillar. You can see the seam where it stops. Beyond that it's just the B pillar, and the drip rail sticks out past it. The seam between the drip rail and the B pillar has one small weld which you can't really see in that pic. Beyond that it has seam sealer in the gap, and it is spot welded from underneath. That's where all the rust was on mine. It was pretty bad in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 I realized after looking at Terry's page yesterday that I left too much of a lip on there. Back to grinding and welding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 While you're working on the door frame, you can also modify the door and door frame to fit like modern car doors fit. Just a suggestion, It would be mind blowing to do this IMO. I don't know, I'm sleep depraved right know, going on 43 hours right now with out sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Actually my doors are going to be gutted. I was thinking of not installing the stainless window track though. Just have the chrome strip on the top of the door to cover that sharp lip and have it otherwise gutted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Update. 4.5" grinder took a crap today. Off to Harbor Freight. Not so bad, I definitely got my $10 worth out of it... Did some heavy grinding today got the passenger side almost flush and rewelded. Man you can put one heck of a better weld on there when it's near flush. MUCH BETTER penetration, and a lot less effort. Instead of doing 8000 little spot welds you can really run a bead on there. Cut the driver side off, see the rust pics below. This side looked better but was actually worse off than the passenger side. Oh well. It will all be fixed when I'm done with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlalomz Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If you plan on going to the nationals you will need the drip rails in tact to be legal in FP, so you better not cut them off.............nevermind. Your car is now an aerodynamically slippery open tracker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 Nah, when this motor dies I'm going LS1. Tired of trying to squeeze blood from the stone we call the L6... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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