Lewis Maudlin Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 OK, I am driving and learning about my SR20DET. It looks like a standalone is next. I will worry about a bigger turbo and MAF and injectors later. Which standalone is best for an SR20DET? When I try to research, everyone has bad things to say about each one. Most people complain that the A'PEXi does not have enough options since it is programmable with the Power FC. I have a laptop so that is not an issue. Anyone using standalone? Does anyone have any experience with various standalones? ALEX??? ANYONE??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProjectSR20 Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I am not very familiar withmost of the systems on the market but I do know a little. Once I get my motor in and running I am just going to stick with the A'pexi SAFC. For my needs, the price and what it does it is the best buy. I have a friend with a turbo'ed Impreza 2.5 RS that is running a full Lynksdata sp? system that I know from helping him is a pain to tune unless you really know what you are doing. A full standaolone system is great but for some people its overkill ( I'm not sure what your power goals are). Alot of it is in personal preference. People like some features that one system offers vs. another. Another system that I looked at was a SDS setup. I have heard lots of good things about them. Come to think of it I dont think I have actually read anything negative enough about anyone to make me not buy their product. I am sure there are plenty of other people that know more than me. Thats just my 0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superz Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 If you're looking for everyday driveability and no headaches then you shouldnt go with a standalone. If you have no problem with constant datalogging, and frequent adjustments then standalone is for you. Im sure that the stock is ECU is very well suited to your power goals and will get you the most mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted February 7, 2006 Author Share Posted February 7, 2006 I thought a standalone would work better? Aren't they programmable? I have no experience with fuel management so I am relying on you guys. I am considering a Z32 MAF and 550 injectors so I think a standalone will be necessary. I may also change the turbo or this or that and don't want to continue sending my ECU out for adjustments which may or may not be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Is your ecu tuneable? You may have to purchase a daughterboard and a couple of eeproms and a burner. Free software is available all over the 'net for nissan ecu's. You'll need to learn how to tune it, but you could do that before upgrading anything. If you look for deals I'd say you could do for around 200.00 dollars or so. If you want to tune via a laptop you'd have to buy two emulators from xtronics and use Live Edit to tune it. And a wideband. There are a bunch of websites around explaining how the parameters inside the ecu work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 Does anyone have any experience with the various standalone systems??? Which one is easiest and works best. I am leaning toward the A'PEXi since it seems easiest to use and is cheapest but many people complain it does not have enough features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR240Z Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 well with the Apex'i Power FC you can only have one map, where as with most other standalones you can have many different maps and load them depending on what boost your running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 Alex, which standalone would you recommend. I need one that is fairly user friendly since I am new to this fuel management stuff. My old carb on my sbc conversion was not so complicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR240Z Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 as far as user friendly goes, SDS or Megasquirt i have seen are the most user friendly comparable to the power fc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 If you're looking for everyday driveability and no headaches then you shouldnt go with a standalone. If you have no problem with constant datalogging, and frequent adjustments then standalone is for you. Im sure that the stock is ECU is very well suited to your power goals and will get you the most mpg. Once you get your setup dialed in, a standalone will outperform the stock ecu in every aspect and you will have no issues with driveability. The adjustments are made as you upgrade different parts (injectors, turbos, etc), not to mention that you get rid of restrictions in the system such as a MAF and tons of unnecessary vacuum lines running to sensors that you will no longer need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Maudlin Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 OK, Z-gad, I am listening. Now the question is which standalone for a novice. I can use a computer and am relatively intelligent. However, I have no experience with this. Is there a standalone that you would recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 http://www.microtechefi.com/ http://haltech.com/ You can use your stock sensors and coils with either. Go into downloads and it shows the wiring.http://www.microtechefi.com/html/WIRING.htm Haltech also makes this http://haltech.com/interceptor.htm. for the SR20. What ever you get you will need a wideband to tune it properly. I would get whatever turbo and injectors you will be using before tuning. A T25 won't move nearly as much air as a T3 or larger turbo at the same boost. So sense in tunning twice. I know Microtech will put a base map in it for your application to get you running. You can probably find someone with a similar setup and use there map and fine tune from there, with whatever system you end up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Really, all of the standalones do the same thing. The main points are base timing, fuel, and degrees of retard (under boost). Different systems offer some extra nice-eties like datalogging, interfacing a wideband, auto programming based on inputs (don't trust it all the time), electric fan control, cold start enrichmment, coil packs, etc For a first timer, I like the SDS. It is easy to understand and you do not need a laptop to program it as a handheld programmer is utilized to input data. It was the first system that I ran in my Z, and was easy to wire in. There are more options now available through them than what there was when I ran mine. SDS also provides a base map programmed into the unit so that you can get the car started... see http://www.sdsefi.com for details... Currently I am running the Electromotive TEC2. It too is easy to program once you figure out VE tables and such. You do need a laptop and the wiring would require a little more time as the ouitputs and inputs aren't terminating at a plug. The TEC2 is no longer in production as they have moved to the TEC3 now. I also have a TEC 3 sitting in the garage that I am not quite ready to tackle. I cannot justify "upgrading" to it when the TEC2 I am using is running flawlessly. These are the two that I am most familiar with. It would be helpful for you to find some people in your area running standalones so you would have some hands-on assistance too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProjectSR20 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I totally agree with Alex on the SDS being very user friendly. I have heard nothing but praise on how easy it is to get set up and running. I think it might be a little on the pricey side though. That is the only thing that drove me away from it (...tight budget...). Wide band is a must. The stock O2 sensor is way too inacurate for any kind of tuning. These can run you a pretty penny too. I know APexi makes a good wideband setup. I want to say that the last time I looked at it it was around $1,000, I could be wrong. Clifton also it the nail on the head. You must tune it with the injectors you plan on running, due to the duty cycle and ammount of fuel different injectors put out. If you tune it with 300cc injectors for example, and drop in 550's your map will be totally off and you would just need to retune. As far as tuning goes, if you are not going to have a shop do it, READ EVERYTHING YOU CAN!! I had a friend that tried to tune his stanalone system by himself and ended up running his motor way too lean at about 6,000 rpm and basically started melting it. A long, straight, flat road is the best. Try and do a couple of 4th & 5th gear pulls (this might not work for you, not sure what the roads in you area are like) Keep an eye on your AF ratio and your boost level. Spikes are very bad and could be a sign of detonation. (You seem like a smart guy so im sure you have an idea of this already). If I remeber correctly you have a fairly large intercooler so this might not be too much of a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Once you get your setup dialed in, a standalone will outperform the stock ecu in every aspect and you will have no issues with driveability. The adjustments are made as you upgrade different parts (injectors, turbos, etc), not to mention that you get rid of restrictions in the system such as a MAF and tons of unnecessary vacuum lines running to sensors that you will no longer need. Any properly setup ecu will run the engine properly. Being a standalone doesn't make it easier or better or worse. The maf is easily upgradeable if it is found to be restrictive or out of metering capability. There are a lot of mail order nissan ecu's running cars into the 4-500hp range. The biggest benefit to a standalone is you can control other devices with it. nitrous, water injection, boost control etc. Cleaning up the engine would be a plus as well. You can most likely do that with the stock ecu as well. Either way if you're not going to tune it get an ecu that a shop is familiar with, or learn the ins and outs of the ecu you're going to use if you choose to do it on your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zraced... Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 OK, Z-gad, I am listening. Now the question is which standalone for a novice. I can use a computer and am relatively intelligent. However, I have no experience with this. Is there a standalone that you would recommend? I am using the Microtech LT12 with six coil setup. It wires into your stock components and comes preloaded with the factory setup. It should start up and get you running pretty quickly. I was also looking at Haltech and Electromotive...but this one seemed easier for me to work with. It also came prewired for my car from Microtech with nice schematics and labeled harness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Any properly setup ecu will run the engine properly. Being a standalone doesn't make it easier or better or worse. The maf is easily upgradeable if it is found to be restrictive or out of metering capability. There are a lot of mail order nissan ecu's running cars into the 4-500hp range. The biggest benefit to a standalone is you can control other devices with it. nitrous, water injection, boost control etc. Cleaning up the engine would be a plus as well. You can most likely do that with the stock ecu as well. Either way if you're not going to tune it get an ecu that a shop is familiar with, or learn the ins and outs of the ecu you're going to use if you choose to do it on your own. Properly, for sure, to it's potential...probably not. Mail order ECU's are great for people who do not want to learn or have the time to learn a stand alone. I refuse to believe that a preprogrammed ECU will get your optimal tune, taking into consideration any porting, throttlebody changes, intercooler flow, turbo of choice, etc. Besides, if you change turbo, or injectors, then you get to send your ECU out again... and wait for them to get to it... and maybe get to send it back again because it was not done right the first time (not always, but it happens). Are there 400-500 rwhp guys running preprogrammed ecu's.. absolutely Would I? NOPE!! just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Properly' date=' for sure, to it's potential...probably not. Mail order ECU's are great for people who do not want to learn or have the time to learn a stand alone. I refuse to believe that a preprogrammed ECU will get your optimal tune, taking into consideration any porting, throttlebody changes, intercooler flow, turbo of choice, etc. Besides, if you change turbo, or injectors, then you get to send your ECU out again... and wait for them to get to it... and maybe get to send it back again because it was not done right the first time (not always, but it happens). Are there 400-500 rwhp guys running preprogrammed ecu's.. absolutely Would I? NOPE!! just my .02 [/quote'] I totally agree that 100%. I would never claim or pretend that mail order is the best way. That's why he should tune whatever ecu he choses on his own IMO. Re-programmed (by himself) stock ecu included. Or have a shop nearby that is familiar with whatever ecu he goes with. Modded stock ecu included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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