Bartman Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Here's a couple of picture's of my floor pans: In general I think they are fairly good shape and I was planning on just covering them with POR-15. My questions are: Do you think that just using POR-15 is enough based on the current condition (they still seem pretty solid) and what should I do about the drain plugs? Should I replace the rubber plugs or go another route (like welding in sheet metal)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 You definitely want the drain plugs in there. If the heater core takes a crap or something happens with the weatherstripping the plugs will be a big help. I'd just get new ones. I wouldn't POR-15 over the sound deadening rubber though. Mine were a little worse than yours, not too bad at all, no holes bigger than a pinhole, but when I pulled the rubber off there was a ring of surface rust all the way around the border of the rubber. I think that water that does get down to thru the carpets and hits that seams just collects there and slowly begins to rust the sheetmetal. If you're going to treat it against rust, might as well pull that **** off and treat whatever little bit of rust is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 You definitely want the drain plugs in there. If the heater core takes a crap or something happens with the weatherstripping the plugs will be a big help. I'd just get new ones. I wouldn't POR-15 over the sound deadening rubber though. Mine were a little worse than yours, not too bad at all, no holes bigger than a pinhole, but when I pulled the rubber off there was a ring of surface rust all the way around the border of the rubber. I think that water that does get down to thru the carpets and hits that seams just collects there and slowly begins to rust the sheetmetal. If you're going to treat it against rust, might as well pull that **** off and treat whatever little bit of rust is there.I didn't realize until your post, that the top is actually a big piece of sound deadening rubber (at first I thought it was an extra pan piece epoxied or spot welded in for more strength:redface: ). So it sounds like I should pull that rubber layer out and then treat the entire floor? I'm going to cover everything with a dynomat alternative as well, but I don't want to let any rust that's already there to get worse. Should I replace that rubber sound deadener or just go without? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 You can do either, but I'd go without, because no matter what kind of rubber you put down there, I think its going to have the same issue as the stock stuff, with water getting trapped around the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 Here's some new pic's: In the picture above I put a light underneath so that the holes show up better. That's not rust behind the seat mount it's just fibers that I haven't cleaned up yet. I'm thinking I need to remove the rubber pad and weld in some repair panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri-Star Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 any idea where to get the rubber plugs? i need a whole set for both sides and the rear deck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNeckZ Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 You can take some measurements of the holes (in metric) and call MotorsportsZ and ask for the floor plugs. They will ask you for the readings you got and get you the right plugs. I just ordered eight plugs for my floor. Good Luck, Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleMX Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Check Lowes for the plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Here's some new pic's: In the picture above I put a light underneath so that the holes show up better. That's not rust behind the seat mount it's just fibers that I haven't cleaned up yet. I'm thinking I need to remove the rubber pad and weld in some repair panels. That looks even more similar to mine. I think you'll find that the rubber does protect the metal, so about 1/2" inside the rubber the metal will be fine. You could cut a small patch and weld in that one spot, but why? It's only like a 3" square section right there IIRC. Don't stress over it. I think you'll find out what's really going on when you get the rubber out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I stripped all that rubber/undercoating out of mine and found rust underneath it. I hadn't planned on pulling it out on the driver's side but did on the passenger because of repairs I was making to the firewall. When I stripped it out of the passenger side and found rust under it I decided to pull all of it out. There was rust on the seem where the floor meets the bottom of the firewall on the driver's side that I wouldn't have found had I left the undercosting there. If you are planning on putting in something like DynaMat anyway I'd pull all of it and repair any rust you find. BTW: I'm going to use FatMat, got 100 Sq feet for $135.00 shipped to my door. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 hey bartman, if you want an easy way to get that crap out take a fire extinguisher with C02 in it and spray the hell out of it, and then just beat the crap out of it with a hammer. if you cant get access to an extinguisher with C02 use dry ice and let it get nice and cold on the mat, and hammer away. it will come off in nice big chunks. im glad my dad suggested this to me because i was using a hammer and chisel and spent forever on one part of the tranny tunnel and then i did this and got the entire deadening off in about 5-10 minutes. if theres not that much rust under there when you take it off, use Eastwood's "rust encapsulator" go to www.eastwood.com and go to rust prevention. Ive used both rust encapsulator and Por-15 on my car and personally rust encapsulator not only works better, its a hell of a lot easier to work with. this stuff does not come off metal at all, even with trying to scrape it with a screwdriver, Por15 will. plus it doesnt stay on your hands for a week and a half like por15 does. and it doesnt get all chunky if theres a little bit of air in your storage container. I found out this stuff from my neighbor who swears by it. He restores fire engines and trucks from the 20's and 30's. and has donated some of his work to museums so i trust what he is saying. and i can also tell from my first hand experience. thanks paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Thanks guys for all the advice. I'll get rid of the rubber and see how bad it really is. That rust encapsulator sounds pretty good. If the worst area is in the picure I posted earlier would you just use this product and apply some fiberglass in the area with small holes? I think I'll only find rust around the edges of the rubber mat on the driver's side (as well as the couple of uncovered area in the pictures above). It seems to be from moisture coming from the inside not outside. The firewall looks fantastic without even a hint of rust, and I can't find any rust looking on the bottom of the floor pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 the picture you posted showing the holes you will find that it is really weak and can poke through it with a screwdriver. the lower pic i would just scrape it with a wire brush or use a grinder (better) with a knotted wire wheel and then use rust encapsulator. the solution to the first one would be to cut it out put new sheet metal there. when you remove the sound deadener let us see some more pics and if my assumptions are correct, this is what you shoulld do. the PO of my car just fiberglassed over what that top picture looks like and it was just a PITA cutting out and removing. Its as they say "putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound". (dr bruce bonanno) rust like that, has totally eaten away every good trait of the metal and it will just promote rust around it. its almost exactly like cancer so i would say to cut it out. like i said, that other rust spot looks to be just a little more than surface rust so grind it down and paint it with rust encapsulator. paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 I'd like to do this the right way, so it sounds like cuting out the rusted areas and welding in a new metal piece is the right way to do it. I've searched and I can't find a good explanation of the proper way to insert patch panels. Searching around the internet I've found a couple of different options. I could remove the rusted piece, cut a replacement piece to fit, and then butt-weld and grind smooth. The other method would be to make the repair panel large than the opening and lap weld (could use a manual flanging tool on the edges of the piece being welded). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Take the tar off. You'll see how small that section is. If you wanted to weld in a little square there, you could weld in a flanged section. But you'll find that the square is probably only an inch larger than the visible portion that you see there. At least that's the way it was on my car. Definitely do try to poke holes in it. I did on mine, and I couldn't poke any more holes in it, and I only have 2 tiny pinholes in there. If you punch a 4" square hole in your floor, then obviously you'll have to take care of it another way. But if it's similar to mine, other than the worrying thought that there is a square section of pockmarked floor under the carpet I just don't see the problem. I'm just judging by your sig, but it doesn't look like you're going for that concourse build to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 I'm just judging by your sig, but it doesn't look like you're going for that concourse build to me. No, I don't think I'll be entering Pebble Beach. I'll just figure out what to do after I determine how bad the problem is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotfitz Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I used the butt joint method when patching the few spots I had to do. I didn't like the idea of another lap joint after looking at the firewall seam at the floor board. The one thing I noticed using a mig without gas shield was if there is the slightest bit of rust where you are trying to weld, it will blow a hole in the piece your welding. After the first couple pieces I tried, and failed, I made my patch hole and replacement piece bigger and had no problems welding it back up. Spot welding around the perimeter and then filling worked well aslong as I prepared the weld surface between each pass. In this pic you should notice where the patch is in the middle, I had to contour the piece to fit the original. At the time of the pic I was rinsing metal ready off and letting it dry. Thats why it looks wet. Because it is. In the same pic you slightly can see the other patch which went from the firewall seam back about 10" along the rocker panel and the hump that leads down to the floor board. Now that one was fun to fit! I eventually cleaned up the firewall seam surface rust and POR-15'ed the mess. You couldn't see where the patch was. Eventually I put in sound deadening. Those pics are in my album. Hope this helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 i lap welded but i think you will be happier with taking the time to properly butt weld it in place. spotfitz that piece looks good but if i were going to the trouble to do what you did i would have redone the whole floor (which i did) because it just looks kinda rusty. but if you didnt, thats ok too. the metal looks ok and you can seal it up with por15 or rust encapsulator. bartman, when you get a pic of what it looks like after youve beat the tar out of it .. let me see it. thanks paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 It wound up being fairly easy to remove the rubber sound deadening and overall the floor pan looks to be in pretty good shape (just like Jon said it would). I'm still not sure about whether or not I should weld in replacement pieces or just use a rust treatment, but I'm leaning towards just treating it. If I treat the areas that need it, what do I do about the small holes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 if your going to end up just treating it, use seam sealer and smooth it out on the small holes after you have coated it. that doesnt look too bad, are you able to poke through the spots with a screwdriver? if so it definately needs replacing, if not you can treat it if you want, just take a grinder to the spots first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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