pparaska Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Thanks, Rick. I'll probably go with the Stage 3, since it's rated above what my torque should be (for the 10.5" Camaro size). Hopefully this SPEC vs Centerforce clutch info is useful to others as well. I was worried about the driveability of the SPEC Stage 3, so it's nice to hear that it's not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 My centerforce: worked fine for a while and then gaveup, clutch started slipping like crazy and when i pulled it out I found a crack in the friction material: Worked fine for about a year though, I woudl say at 250-300hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 My ACT 6-puck is holding 300ft-pounds really well. It feels like it has at least the capacity to hold another 150+ ft-lbs in it. It's a solid disc so it chatters a bit but I learned to drive around the chatter. The pedal feel is heavier than stock but it's not ridiculous. If I did it again, I would use an ACT disc with a spring center or a solid-ring disc to alleviate chatter. I like the pressure plate alot. NOTE: The chatter could be from my flywheel which has not been cut in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 After looking up some clutch packages it seems to me that what is driving the use of centerforce regardless of its reliability, is its cost. Centerforce is considerably less expensive than most other packages. Would we say that is a fair assessment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Centerforce on average is about 100 dollars cheaper then the competition. But its not rated the same.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 So what would you guys recommend for us less knowlegable people? Would you recommend resurfacing the flywheel or just replacing it? I would like to know before I start rebuilding one of the two L28 I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ-E Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 All I did was take mine to the local machine shop, and have it resurfaced. Unless your ring gear is damaged I can't see any reason in replacing it. With that just the same you can replace the ring gear as well. Or you could go to Dave at arizona zcar and get an billet steel one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ-E Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Centerforce on average is about 100 dollars cheaper then the competition. But its not rated the same.... Well actually the Spec Stage 3 that I bought was only maybe 75 dollars more then the Dual slipping clutch. I had also a while back purchased one of those XTD clutches, with the 6 puck sprung hub design. I have that in now awaiting the Spec, and it works great, the worst is it works better then the CFDF!! Not to mention it was almost half the price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I had mine resurfaced at Carquest (pepboys, autozone) some of those places have the machines to resurface flys. I got a Competition Clutches Stage 4, 6-puck sprung hub clutch for 420 through my local shop. You can get them direct for 400. It holds like no other but is not for the casual/daily driver, at least IMO. I will provide more details as I use it. Im still breaking it in right now. I talked to the owner and he said it would have NO issue holding 550+ crank hp. Heres the website: http://www.competitionclutch.com/main.phtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Best price I've found for SPEC stuff is here: http://ultrarev.com/ No word on whether they are o.k. to deal with. Well, they are $305 for the clutch kit for my Chevy V8 with 28 spl input shaft WC T-5 But for the Datsun, $388: http://ultrarev.com/FX300_Clutchmasters_Stage_3_Nissan_240Z_1969_1972_4cyl_2.4L-p24010.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I dont care what anyones says, center force clutches are junk! Here's what my flywheel and pressure plate looked like after 1000 miles... http://www.datsun-280zx-lt1.com/Big_Pictures/LT1_and_T56/Flywheel_hotspots.JPG http://www.datsun-280zx-lt1.com/Big_Pictures/LT1_and_T56/CFDF_Clutch_disc.JPG I've switched to a SPEC Stage 3 now but I haven't put any miles on it yet as the car is on jack stands as I slowly do the body work. I've heard way too many stories from LT1 guys about the crappy quality of the CFDF clutches. Most LT1 guys like the SPEC clutches. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ-E Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Seems that yours looked just as good as mine 80LT1. I know this much and I think that they should say something as far as CF on they're site to the actuall holding capacity of they're clutches. Instead they use this to cover they're collective bums by saying, and this is taken directly from they're site. Generates up to a 90% increase in holding capacity over stock systems. This clutch/disc set is designed for use with engines producing 'high horsepower and torque' output, and any radically altered high performance street vehicles. Now to me, that says concidering the stock nature of the 280ZX turbo that it should hold about 350 ft lbs of torque at least. It hardly doesn't though before it starts to slip. Note how they say up too, its a broad spectrum that people tend to buy into. Oh well off my soap box for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeder Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Here's what my flywheel and pressure plate looked like after 1000 miles... Yup, that's exactly what my dual sliption looked like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Perhaps your title should read: For all that think Centerforce clutches are bad. You always hear plenty about the bad apples. The majority that think they are good won't be agreeing with you anyway. Maybe my torque and 6500-7 grand shifts aren't a true comparison to your set up. Most 383s have at least 400 lb/ft throughout the 3-6000 rpm. Many 500 peak. So far so good. Same clutch and pressure plate since 99! Wonder why Big name aftermarket tuners for Corvettes would use them if they were junk?? But, again maybe your driving style isn't a good match. Make sure you post it when you find the right one. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ-E Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Maybe it's just with the L motors, because like I have said and I have seen it before, some good some bad, but none definite, least when it comes to the L motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 That's been my point all along John. This may be a "for this application" kinda deal. However, you guys are harping on the virtues of the Spec unit, and now two months ago one of our own posted pics of his SPEC unit in the same exact condition as your pics of the DF (Maybe even worse, he posted pics so do a search), and I thought it was from a Turbo L6 car... Word to the wise, be careful in your choices for your application. Don't pick up a screwdriver and expect it to be a hammer. Apparently the Centerforce DF setup for turbo L6 or High HP L6 cars is an issue. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briann510 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 The CF DF in our 320 hp L6 stroker has about 4K of intense driving, clutch dumping and constant 7k shifts and is just fine. I also have a CF DF in my 600 hp Pontiac and it has well over 3K hard driven miles on it and is just fine. I know dozens of other people with high hp engines that have no problems either...BUT I know people with problems just as well. Its like buying a steak from the same place, sometimes its good and sometimes its not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Mine has held up totally fine thus far, though I am not putting tons of power through it. (232hp, 281ft-lbs) I did follow proper break in procedure and had a freshly surfaced flywheel. We'll see how it is over the next month or so when I install my boost controller and crank things up a little bit. I like the feel of the pressure plate, I think if I need to I might just get a ACT friction disk to put in there if the dual-friction craps out on me. Edit: To add, I've got about 12,000 miles on this clutch at 6-9psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I also have the 240mm CFDF clutch behind the L6. I am sure that mine was properly broken in, the flywheel(fresh resurface) and clutch combo ran for 10K miles of daily driving behind my NA engine before the turbo engine went in. I was happy with it until I ran on slicks at the track. With the added traction, it would slip and fry off the line. I think that the problem with the turbo cars is that there is more TQ than the clutch can handle in the 3-4000 RPM area. The diaphram spring is light in that clutch, and I don't think that the weights help that much in that RPM range. When running street rubber, it will spin before the clutch slips. FWIW - I don't try to build boost at the line by loading the engine, I just take it up to 4k and walked it out. My 60ft times reflect this...(high 1.8s on slicks, 2.2-2.4 on street rubber). On street rubber, I can run 40 hot passes at 12.7-12.9 without complaint from the clutch(or the rest of the car). It's a nice clutch with a smooth, progressive takeup for a hot daily driver, it's just not suited to track duty behind a torquey L6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I don't think this applies to the L6, but on the DSM, the instructions for the CF were very explicit about having the flywheel surfaced WITH THE CORRECT "STEP" AT THE EDGED OF THE FRICTION SURFACE. The DSM uses a stepped flywheel, and the step is important for the correct pressure to be applied while engaged. Are the L6 CF pressure plates just OE PP's, like for the DSM CF PP? If so, it's not surprising that they fail at lower rpm wher ethe weights don't do as much to help holding pressure. Just a theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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