Mikelly Posted April 18, 2000 Share Posted April 18, 2000 That is strange.... Actually DOH!!!!!! Nope, it isn't. You are right. My first 74 was a 7/74 and it had the early type bumpers... My new 74 is a 10/74 and it had later style bumpers... Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 18, 2000 Share Posted April 18, 2000 quote: Originally posted by pparaska: Bubba Fett, Don't worry about the computer skills, man, they come with time. I respect anybody willing to tackle these projects! I did it first once too, and learned what you're going through now. Same thing, I just did it before you. I hope I can shed some light on the project. Pictures would help. I have a digital camera and some spare parts around so I'll snap some pics and label them on the computer and update the site. It'd be easier for every body to understand if I had pics there. Bubba, Locutus, You can't use the 280Z (same as the late 260Z) stub axles that are in your cars, without a custom adapter like I have on my car. But all is not lost. Bubba, you said you had 240Z parts. That will save you the machining of the adapters. You can change the stub axles out to the 240Z ones by slide hammering the 280Z axles out by the wheel studs, once you remove the U-joint halfshafts and the large nut down inside the companion flange that that halfshaft bolts to. You have to unstake the nut, since the factory peens it over agains a flat on the threaded inboard end of the stub axle. Once the stub axle is out, the inboard stub axle bearing is probably still in the strut housing, so tap it inboard. The seal will pop out that way too. The outboard bearing is pressed onto the stub axle and will come with it. It is a sealed bearing on the outboard side. Slide the "distance piece" (looks like a short piece of thickwalled pipe) off of the stub axle and save it and any copper washers. Clean out the hub reservoir of the old grease. Get some 240Z stub axles, and it would probably be a good idea to have the outboard bearing pressed off at a machine shop. Have them magnaflux and shot peen the stub axles to make sure there aren't any cracks, and to stress releive them. Then have them press a new outboard bearing on (making sure the sealed side goes to the lug stud flange side of the axle). Take it home and tap in a new, greased, inboard bearing into the cleaned hub cavity. Slide the "distance piece" and any copper washer there might have been when you disassembled the 280Z stub axle from the car. Add new wheel bearing grease to the hub cavity and grease the outboard bearing as much as you can. Then tap in the 240Z stub axle. You probably have to tap the inboard bearing back in a bit, against the distance piece. Now, take the extra R200 pinion seal you already bought and grind off the rubber on the outer diameter. Test every once and a while to see if it will snug fit into where the old stub axle seal went. Don't go too far on the grinding or it won't have a snug fit but will be too loose. Lube the v-groove of the seal with grease. Install the 280ZX Turbo companion flange, install the thick washer and a new 280ZX locknut (so you won't have to stake the 240/260/280Z nut). Torque it to 200 lb ft, no kidding. Pop the output axles out of the R200 that you have installed in the car. Remove the old seals in the output axle openings in the diff and replace with new, greased ones. Take the shorter left side 280ZX halfshaft and slide the splined end into the left side of the diff. If the suspension is assembled to the car, undo the e-brake cable and brake line, and unbolt the top 3 bolts that hold the top of the strut isolator to the car. Swing it out (watch that fender lip!) and you should be able to engage the outboard end of the CV halfshaft (while compressing the shaft joints to make the shaft shorter) into the companion flange. Align the holes and add the 6 new 280ZX T halfshaft bolts, lockwashers, and nuts that you already bought. Torque to spec (can't recall the number but it's higher than you'd think for these little bolts). Swing the strut back up into the fender well and bolt it up, along with the e-brake cable and steel line to the brakes. Bleed the brakes. Repeat for the right side of the car. I think that's it. Anyway, you now have the marginally weaker 240Z stub axles in the car, but it's easier than machining an adapter for most folks. I have seen somebody's site that welded a plate to a 280Z companion flange so that they could bolt the 280ZX T CV shaft to it. The weld stuff scares me for this application. High stress and fatigue and all that. Of course, my the tech article I wrote has the drawing for the adapter pieces, so that is probably less trouble, but more money, if you don't want to yank your stub axles. Please don't hesitate to ping me if this isn't clear. Sometimes my writing just can't get across what I could easily show someone. Best Regards, Pete, I appreciate the detailed answer to my question! It may be easier to go with the adapters after all. Will the CV joints hold more power. ie. is it worth the swap or should I go to a solid axle. I will look at your updated tech article. I dont know how to find it since we are now enjoying Hybrid Z. Bubba Fett ------------------ He sent me to get the Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 18, 2000 Share Posted April 18, 2000 Bubba, On the question of will the CVs hold more power, I believe the answer is yes, because they will handle transfering power better when the angle of the joint is large. U-joints are not good with lots of torque pas t about 3 degrees. To quote a pretty good site on things driveline related: "Ideally, the operating angles on each end of the driveshaft should be equal to or within 1 degree of each other, have a 3 degree maximum operating angle and have at least 1/2 of a degree continuous operating angle." The URL for that site is: http://drivetrain.com/driveline_angle_problem.html My site with the 280Z conversion info is at: http://www.tidalwave.net/~pparaska/280ZCVhalfshaftConversion.htm You can get to the Tech info page by going to the URL: http://24.4.88.44/TechAritcles.htm I'd say that if someone has a CNC machine shop make these adapters, they might want to have a few more sets made to sell. Once it's programmed, the CNC machines can pop copies out quickly and cheaply, relative to the first one made. Cheers, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 Bubafett was waiting for some pics of the Companion flanges for the Z and ZX Turbo. I finally got a few pictures of the companion flanges and adapter installed on my site. You can get to them from the Tech Articles page on this site, or the URLs are listed below: http://www.tidalwave.net/~pparaska/240ZCVhalfshaftConversion.htm http://www.tidalwave.net/~pparaska/280ZCVhalfshaftConversion.htm Let me know if these pages are still unclear and how and I'll do what I can to clear up any confusion. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Since we have a large membership now, can we do a group purchase on these custom things? Owen ------------------ http://www.homestead.com/s30z/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Sounds great. I will buy a set as spares. Let's make sure the machine shop is reputable and uses a good material. Like Milspec certified billet or something. These puppies are under some incredible torque and bending - kind of like a giant fatigue test specimen! It seems that with most of our membership in the US, a Canadian shop could make these at reasonalbe rates, given the exchange. Either way, anybody know of a good shop to make this stuff? CNC would be great if we could get enough orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Locutus Posted May 20, 2000 Share Posted May 20, 2000 My soon to be uncle in law owns a machine shop. If there is enough intrest I will have him make up a whole bunch. (Unfortunately he isn't even that close to my girlfriend so he won't even do them for me for free, but he will cut me a deal I think). Locutus (Mike) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted May 20, 2000 Share Posted May 20, 2000 I wonder how long this would take, to find a shop, count up the number of adapters per person, get the shop's estimate and then get them made if the price is right. I ask because the rear end of my car is in pieces as I am switching to rear discs and urethane rubbers. If this could be done relatively fast, I might just leave everything in pieces. Hell, I don't even have an R200 yet! Owen ------------------ http://www.homestead.com/s30z/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 I am in...I will take two sets as well.... let me know when, where, how much etc... hrb4life@iglobal.net CorZette ------------------ CorZette 73 240Z/350 SBC WITH L88 COWL INDUCTION HOOD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 Count me in... I'd be up for a set. Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 Pete, somewhere in this thread I missed exactly what the design for the adaptor is. I am the person who made the adaptor that is welded to the 280Z companion flange and I guess I am confused by your concern. IMO, a welded unit is stronger than a bolted one and there is less chance that a weld will come apart than bolts coming loose or shearing. How many times have I heard that 2 components welded together can actually be stronger than a single component. If we should be concerned about welds, then folks like Ron Jones should be terrified that everything forward of his firewall is held together by welds . The R-200/CV combo is incredibly strong, despite my LSD disintegrating . We have a 300ZXT here in Orlando that ran 10.0 @ 140 with a full-body weighing in at 3250lbs. Do the math and thats 700hp AT THE WHEELS!! He runs a stock 5-spd, 11.5" ET Streets, stock 300ZX suspension and axles. He has broken several stub axles at the base of the splines but never a CV halfshaft or Diff. I must tell you that he developed a technique of slipping the clutch off the line and when he does not, is when he snaps the stub axles. That is an extreme case but an indication of how far you can go with the stock components. And, note that I said 700hp at the wheels. I think there is a lot there with stock components and ET Streets before making the leap to a solid axle and slicks. The one problem is being lucky enough to find used components that are not already thrashed. Scottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 Hi Scottie, This thread started out with a question about using 280ZXT rear components in a 77 280Z. I went on to discuss the two ways that I had put parts in my 240Z to first use the 240Z stub axles and modified 280ZXT companion flanges for use with the 280ZXT CV shafts, then I discussed the custom adapters I bought from Jim Biondo that he had made up to connect the 280Z companion flange (with 280Z stub axles) to the 280ZXT CV shafts. Mike Kelly noted that the 280Z stub axle was stronger so use that. Then the discussion turned to having the adapters that I have drawings of on my site made in numbers. I agree that the welded design you have may be good enough. But I have heard of failures of highly stressed welded up driveline components. The failure is usually in the imperfect weld or in the material next to the weld. I know just a bit about weld strength from a text book and practical basis, but not enough to discuss it with any authority. I know Mike Kelly is a professional welder, so maybe he has something to add here. A driveline part like a companion flange is alot like a fatigue specimen in a rotating/bending fatigue machine. It has torque and bending moments applied to it. This is therefore an area to be concerned about things like weld imperfections (internal voids, varying weld thickness, or varying weld properties around the part) or any other stress concentrations. I'm not saying that the welded up 280Z companion flange/adapter you have is going to be a problem, but the design that Jim came up with (and I have drawings of on my site) gets away from the weld property issue. BTW, I know Jim (and me for that matter) do not want to be liable for anyone using that design. Sorry, but I feel I have to say that. I dare say that the CV adapter/companion flange/stub axle is more highly loaded and has more high stress fatigue than a cage or frame under normal loading. I realize that the two part adapter that I have on my car that Jim had made is also possibly prone to failure. Metalurgy is a problem, as well as bolts coming loose or breaking. Jim had the parts made out of Certified billet. The bolt loosening problem can be somewhat be taken care of with loctite. I know I will be looking after the bolts regularly. But lastly, I like the simple solution and I really like the simplicity of the welded design you have! In fact, I would say that a n nuclear certified welded one that was X-rayed afterward and known to be good might be the best solution. No idea how much it would cost to have a certified Nuclear welder make these and get them X-rayed. Nor do I think it is really needed. I'm just leary of the welded part in such a high stress and fatigue ridden application. ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Well I'm not a professional welder, although I was certified years ago, and now, depending on who you ask, I'm quite possibly certifiable! But I digress... The issue is the matterials being welded, the type of gas and wire being used and the skill of the welder. A lot of bad welds are the product of lack of research of the matterials being welded together, and not providing the proper preperation, bevel, heat range, cycle... bottom line with welding is do your research before you do the work. However, if the parts are welded properly by a professional, I'd suspect that they would be as strong, if not stronger than the bolted adapter... Now that I have rambled... I want some of those adapters... we gonna make them or what? Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Locutus Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 I printed the drawing out and I will take it to my gf's uncle tomorrow. He said if it isn't to complicated he can make me a really good deal on a bunch of sets. I will get back to yall as soon as he gives me a price. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Count me in on two pairs. By the way the stub axles i was using were out of a 72z & were the biger spline. I didn"t know that the smaller stub axles or adapters were possable so I just spent (wasted) $ having my struts honed out to except the 280Tz stub axles hopping I could make them work. I'm new to this site & other z car sites, so I had no idea this info was out there. I also didn"t know there were so many other V8 powered z's out there. O.k. now Im rambling but count me in on 2 sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted May 27, 2000 Share Posted May 27, 2000 Okay, so without having actually seen any of these parts, it occurs to me to ask what may be a stupid question: Instead of making an adapter, why not take the flange to a machinist to weld in the old holes and have new holes made that match up with those on the CV shaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 27, 2000 Share Posted May 27, 2000 quote: Originally posted by jeromio: Okay, so without having actually seen any of these parts, it occurs to me to ask what may be a stupid question: Instead of making an adapter, why not take the flange to a machinist to weld in the old holes and have new holes made that match up with those on the CV shaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 27, 2000 Share Posted May 27, 2000 Jeronimo, the reason is size. The c.v. flanges are much bigger than the u-joint flanges. There not even close. But I also have a question, are adapters really nessesary. Are the early stub axles to weak? Have they acually been failing? I'm concerned about strength but using the early style stub axles seems alot easyer. I'm having a new 355 built with at least 450 hp. With the old 300 hp motor I twisted my driveshaft like a straw showing a kid a work what a REAL brake stand is all about. And yes it was a shortened chevy driveline. When it when it took something in the 700R4 with it. Good excuse for a rebuild of the whole set up though. I had no problems for over a year of driving & I'm not gentle on my cars. No more brake stands though. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted May 29, 2000 Share Posted May 29, 2000 Okay, yeah, well, it's jeromio, not jeronimo... And if you look at the drawings on pparaska's site, the difference in size does not appear to be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 It all depends on price per pair but put me in for 2 pairs at first. Owen ------------------ http://www.homestead.com/s30z/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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