JMortensen Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 DP makes both types of plates, the "biscuit" style and the slot style I like the slot style because you can adjust the camber infinitely, but the slot style doesn't adjust caster like the biscuit style does (despite what they advertise). Your choices for camber plates are: Techno Toy Tuning Arizona Z car DP racing EMI Ground Control Carrera The biscuit style bolts in. The slot style requires cutting a complex shape into the top of the strut tower. The AZC and TTT plates require welding in the top plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 J mortenson... The adaptation to use coilover top hats with stock mounts makes them considerably thicker than the stock mounts with stock perches... I have this stack of parts.. I will get the measurements today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Bob Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 I honestly did not think that my car would be lowered much if at all. I am confused as to where the adjustable collar is supposed to be at when people say stock ride height. On my car it is close to stock ride height with the collar at the bottom...shouldn't the collar be closer to the top so that I can lower from there? What would I need to do to 240Z top mounts in order to gain the most out of them? When you say bearing spacer, do you mean the bearing that sits in the front top mounts? Pictures of what needs to be done would be great if any are out there. I would love to get the EMI plates but I am getting ready to graduate college and don't have the money right now. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Bob Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 When you go with camber plates do you install them in the front and the rear? I know that it is a stupid question but I don't know anything about them. I could probably swing a set of the DP biscuit type. Would you guys recommend these for a car that is not my daily and will be used mostly for the streets and will be autocrossed occassionally? These DP style just bolt in without any modifications? What does it use for the front bearing, since the stock one sits inside the top srut mount? Also, does anyone know how thick these are compared to the stock 280 mounts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 On my car it is close to stock ride height with the collar at the bottom... Last time. If that is the case, then your car was not at "stock" ride height previously. It was at sagged out or cut spring ride height. The reason it can't go low enough for you is because it was already practically driving on the bumpstops before. The MM kit enabled you to drop the thing down to the bumpstops, but it was ALREADY THERE before you installed the kit. BJ might have a point that the piece that fits under the stock top hat adds height, but unless it is 3" tall, your problem is that you started with a car that was practically sitting on the bumpstops to start with and expected it to get lower by adding an adjustable perch. This is my last effort. I'm not going to post again, because there are enough other people here giving you the right advice and I seem to have pissed you off or you just do not believe what I'm saying. No hard feelings on this end. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Here's JohnC website. Under "products" you'll see the EMI biscit style camber plates. And they do bolt in with out cutting or drilling .There are some pictures. And yes you could use them front and rear. As you can see they are basicly the same(EMI & DP).http://www.betamotorsports.com/products/index.html.http://www.designproductsracing.com/Portals/b2c21a82-fd03-414c-862f-eae410936be3/DSCF0007.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Bob Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 Jon, I am not mad, I understand what you are saying and I do agree with you when it comes to strut travel. However, I am confused because when I look at pictures of my car compared to others even in this thread it does not appear to be lowered, and does not look like it is riding on the bumpstops. This is why I am so confused and don't understand what is different with my setup. The only thing that I can figure is that something must be different above the spring that is causing me to lose strut travel without lowering the height of the car much below stock. You are right, the strut travel shows that the car should be sitting pretty low. But, when you look at the pictures of the car it doesn't look like it. I just don't understand why? I don't know if this makes any sense, and I am sorry if you think I am not listening to what you are saying because I am. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 J mortenson is right.. I just checked... and the top hat does not add that much height...It adds a little over 1/2"... It is hard to say because I can only compare the rear mounts.. I do not have a set of 280Z front mounts with their bearings.... but you do... measure them... I have the top hats with adaptors to fit 240Z front mounts with bearings... I can tell you that those parts are 2 3/4" stack height... you could further reduce that by another 1/4" by hogging out the mount and getting rid of the little bearing spacer... the top hat is entirely different than the stock upper perch... it places the spring further away from the bottom of the mount by ~ another 1/4"... it also has a spacer that is ~1/4" thick... you might be able to find a thinner bearing and get them down to ~2 1/4" total stack thickness. on the other hand... the EMI plates I have will place the top of the spring wayy up inside the tower... they are only 1 3/4" stack hieght... BUT.. they also keep the threaded portion of the rod closer to the top of the spring... follow me here.....it fits deeper in the well looking from the top... and the spring fits closer to the top of the tower.... the top of the rod is very close to the top of the spring.. and you will find that you loose some travel due to the fact the the shocks bottom out before the top hat contacts the gland nut...this may alter your end results another 1/4"+-... something you should do is to look at the set up without springs... forget the coil bind issue for a minute... put the car up on stands... drop the lower perch right off the bottom and let the spring fall down as well... Now push a strut up by hand until it bottoms out... 1. with MY stock 240Z mounts and adaptors and top hats.. the top hat will hit the gland nut before the strut rod actually bottoms out... regardless of overall strut length... 2. the other extreme: with the EMI camber plates... the strut rod will bottom out(in the cartridge) before the "top hat" portion of the plate hits the gland nut... all this does not matter if you use proper bump stops... but is can make a difference in overall suspension travel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 ohh... speaking of this... top hats contacting the gland nuts CAN UNSCREW THEM!... I have evidence of this... they do indeed seem more prone to unscrewing rather than tightening.. go figure... hmm a lot of tracks in the southeast run clockwise... trailbraking on a clockwise track would do it... for me... the answer to this is EMI camber plates... I will get more suspension travel with the strut rod running higher up.. and the top hats can NEVER touch the gland nuts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Bob Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 I will start pulling it apart again this weekend when I am back home. I only get to work on it when I am home from school. I will measure the top mounts and try to take more pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Heres another option... http://www.zcarparts.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=PSDC08 Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jankyvictor Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I need a visual....How are the aftermarket camber plates giving you that much more travel? What is eliminated from the "Stack" that gives you that travel? I thought they were entirely in the engine compartment on top of the strut tower, and allowed the top of the strut to slide laterally. Sorry, need pics....visual learner, but I'l try if you want to explain without pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Here a link that explains it. It's about a BMW M3, but the decription is the same.http://www.e30m3performance.com/myths/travel/travel.htm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jankyvictor Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Ok, this helped a bit. "Most people associate solid camber plates with a harsh ride, due to the lack of a thick rubber or poly-urethane pad to act as a cushion. I have found that this is not necessarily the case. If the solid camber plate has a short stack height, then the increased travel means that the suspension stays in the range where only the spring is needed to absorb bumps..." That's where I was hung-up. I didn't realize that you were elliminating the need for isolators...does sound harsh. If that's the case you don't need camber plates, just a way to rig the strut in there without the thick cushioning parts of the "stack". --of course the higher you go up in there, the greater the need for camber adjustment. Ok, so next question.....I havent seen a camber plate design that allows for a tower brace, nor have I seen a brace that is set up for camber plates.. Where can you bolt one if you've removed the three studs? (I'm talking over the counter here, not elaborate set up's like the Kipperman LS1 Z.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 truth is you can't. you have to weld brackets to your strut towers and bolt in a bar/ghetto rig whatever you do, to build your tower brace. Unless, you run a biscuit type camber plate, that actually bolts to the original holes, and maintains the three bolt patttern, in which case, you will still have 3 bolts to bolt your tower brace to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Well I have the Top End Performance Front and rear brace, and I'm still able to use the bisciut tpye of camber plate from DP performance.http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/graphequ@pacbell.net/detail?.dir=/e8e5&.dnm=1edf.jpg&.src=ph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zlt1 Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 280Bob you ever get this sorted out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflyfast1 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I went out and measured the strut mount insulators on my late 260z. The back measures 3.75" and the front measures 2.75". It appears to me that the front mounts on a 260/280Z are the same as a 240Z. Is this not correct? So one could install the 240Z mounts on the back to get a 1" drop but how do you get the same amount of drop on the front? I wonder if the stock front mounts could be moded to get a corresponding drop. Anybody seen this done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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