dj paul Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 im using bad dog frame rails ove my brand new ones to help tie into the front better, if you look at my site, youll see why i dont think its overkill (for me) my front suspension basically fell off the car because of the rust. i am going to update the pictures later on today so you all can see the most recent, ive done a lot since the last pictures on my site. hopefully i can help some people out, and people can give me suggestions if i need to be doing anything else or good idea.s paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I have not seen those Baddog pieces before. That was basically what I did to my 240Z last winter using 1x3 steel tubing. I cut a section out so it could go over the existing frame rail (which was actually a brand new piece I put on after replacing the floorpans). I then put a piece at each end to tie it into the frame rails front and rear. The front also was a channel that capped the existing framerail. I just finished plating the front frame rails this weekend with 14 gauge, bottom, sides, and top. I will be welding in a custom crossmember within a few weeks, then welding the ending mounts to the framerails. This is a lot of work, and wish I could have used an OTS part. Nice looking parts Baddog! Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I have not seen those Baddog pieces before. That was basically what I did to my 240Z last winter using 1x3 steel tubing. I cut a section out so it could go over the existing frame rail (which was actually a brand new piece I put on after replacing the floorpans). I then put a piece at each end to tie it into the frame rails front and rear. The front also was a channel that capped the existing framerail. I just finished plating the front frame rails this weekend with 14 gauge' date=' bottom, sides, and top. I will be welding in a custom crossmember within a few weeks, then welding the ending mounts to the framerails. This is a lot of work, and wish I could have used an OTS part. Nice looking parts Baddog! Joshua[/quote'] please give me some picture of wat your doin man ill post my pictures up here pretty soon because it sounds like we are doing almost the same thing. and id like to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnosez Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 We at Bad Dog Parts welcome your comments and suggestions for any of our parts. Later this week we should have the first modified 240 rails for those installing V-8s, turbos, etc. ready to ship to Ken Jones for his Titan 5.6L project. Taking the first gen version of our 240 rails they have an added tab on both sides of the "U" that runs the length of the rail portion that fits under the floor pan and it now will go all the way back so that it can be welded to the rear. Once Ken has given his approval we will post pics of the finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Taking the first gen version of our 240 rails they have an added tab on both sides of the "U" that runs the length of the rail portion that fits under the floor pan and it now will go all the way back so that it can be welded to the rear. Now THAT is a product that was sorely needed! Glad to hear you're making it. I'll probably be ready to purchase that from you fairly soon here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 i just put new pictures up on my site, picture quality isnt great because im using my palm as a camera and its dark outside. but you can see how the bad dog frame rails help tie into to the front of the car. i put these rails over new rails that i lined with por-15 and then i plug welded them together. i replaced the floors, rails, and part of the firewall. hope this gives some insight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 DJ Paul, I looks like you cut out the frame rail section, and are replacing it. My frame rails were solid, so I simply plated them with 14 gauge sheet hot rolled. The existing rails are still under the new plating. The reason for the plating is to displace the loads from the engine mounts and crossmember. The stock sheetmetal is so thin, I did not trust it, especially after welding it. I think the absolute best thing to do, for me anyways, would be to cut the front of the car off and fabricate a complete tube chassis up front, but that will be for another car one day. Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnosez Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Well, between our jobs, wives, kids, Christmas shopping, the weather (I just had to snatch my wife's car out of a 3' snow drift), we didn't finish up the V-8/turbo 240 frame rails this week. Next week is the plan. Stay tuned for pics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusPuppis Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I look forward to seeing them when their done. I'll be building my self some subframe connectors to replace the floor rails that were decimated. Going with 2x3 14g square tube steel. This thread is extremely helpful as I uncovered some disturbing holes in my passenger frame rail. Their way up front near the radiator mount and look be have been rust holes at one time. When whoever repaired all the other damage on the car (it was wrecked at some point) it looks like they treated the rust that was there and did a good job.. Then of course they bondo'd over the damage so I didnt find it until I stripped the engine bay down completely =/. I'm still debating what to do about it. The damage is extremely minimal.. Two small holes about 1/4 the the size of my pinky nail.. Even the rest of the area seems solid.. Doesnt seem to be thinned. Not that I can tell anyway. I dunno though, some rail repair may be in my future, if for no other reason than peace of mind. Good to see some options and info. Knowledgable thread. I wonder if it would be worth compiling the info here, on the net in general and in other threads on Hybrid and make a sticky with some FAQ's and general information about front and floor rail repairs.. Seems that ALOT of Z's out there are in need of some love in these areas, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackhammer Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 I hope I am not providing over kill on this subject. So... sorry if I am. I have provided below my photo bucket album with the pictures of my frame rail and floor pan project on my "early 74 260" from this year. The floor pans are MSA's heavier gage pans. The frame rails are from Bad Dog. I also used Bad Dogs seat brackets and single point jack plates (not shown). More to the point of this post is the problem I had with the front engine compartment frame rails. The car had sustained a major hit on the front left side at some point and was repaired. It left the frame rail however looking like a piece of ribbon macaroni. Unacceptable for what I want the end result to be. Since the integrity (strength) of the rail was not a major concern ...I decided to cap over the rails with 1/8" thick channel from the fire wall to the front radiator cross piece. I first checked as best as I could several measurements and confident that the frame is squared and true. I will let the pictures tell the story. Just a side note: Before this I have never done any thing like this before. I could change oil, do tune ups and turn a wrench some. I borrowed a friends Lincoln mig welder, replaced my 20 Amp garage breaker with a 40 Amp. Practiced welding on some scrap metal after my friend showed me some basics and then I just jumped in. Bottom line if I can do it most anybody can. http://photobucket.com/albums/d81/jackhammer02/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Jackhammer, That is almost exactly what I did, except I did not use Baddog subframe connectors. I plated my front frame rails with individual flat pieces since I did not want to get them bent, plus it is easier to fit them. I have been working with the engine hanging betweent he frame rails (from a cherry picker)! I think the end result is very similar. I also "spot welded" my parts in place using plug welds. The corners are fully welded and ground and appear to be on bent piece. I used 14 gauge HR for this. Finally, I only ran my pieces past the sway bar mounts, and not up to the rad mount due to the shape of the rails and how they taper. I personally think the weight is worth it, especially considering how rusted the rail can be inside (unknown), and how I am mounting the engine. Thanks for the pictures! Your work looks good! Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackhammer Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Thanks Joshua, There's always more than one way to address a situation. Sounds like you handled the issue well. In this case I wanted a solid end to end piece so as to give it a seamless appearance. To address the issue of rust... POR 15 products were used extensively through out. The rails were flanged on each end and welded solid, seam sealed, POR 15 top coats,more primer,color coat and clear coated. I am confident it is sealed. The use of the car will be extremely limited to occasional and shows. Post some pics ...I'd like to see her... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolane Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Jackhammer, I will try posting pictures sometime. I don't even know how to quote someone though right now. I just can't figure out where to insert the negative so it will display on the screen (j/k). Anyway, I really do like your approach. If I had a brake, I would have done something very similar. It is tough though working in a small garage with, essentially, hand tools. I can't even get the engine out of the engine bay because the chassis is stripped of suspension, so it can't roll, and the engine hoist cannot move foward but 6" (step in garage). Anyways, I think in the end we both end up with something very similar. I considered running mine all the way forward, but I started with pretty good frame rails (just a little bent on the right side). I figure that if I reinforce everything to the strut towers minimum, it should be nice and strong. The front end is just to hold the headlights, etc (exaggerating a bit, but basically it is just added weight for me). I actually worked on the car today, and got my custom crossmember welded into the car (finally, after about 6 months of having it built). That came out nice, now onto the engine mounts (for the third try). Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj paul Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 sounds like you all are doing nice work. keep it up and dont get discouraged. im working in a carport when its 20 degrees! i put tarps up on the side and bought a nice carhart jumpsuit and a bunch of 1000w lights, those things are so warm you almost dont need a heater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 tuff z Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 john, lemme know when the v8z rails are done, then i can get them and add to the jack plates that are scheduled to be welded on this spring, once the z is running again. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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