RB26 versus VQ35 swap ?

[turbonat240]

Hi everyone,

I have been picking up info on the RB26DETT swap for my ’73 240z for over a year now and I was decided to stick with this choice for a while now even with the disadvantages of that setup (see the chart below). But a friend of mine (who has an RB26DETT in his ’95 240sx) can get me a vq35 engine for real cheap and that’s the only engine I had not thought about since I was sure it was too expensive. Well now I’m making lists for pros and cons between these engines and I’d like to know if I forgot something important in there ?

Just before I get to that list I have to say that just last week I saw a dyno sheet of a tuned RB26 (still twin turbo and with upgrades to reach about 550hp at 22 psi) and was quite disappointed with what I saw. I would have hoped for more midrange torque and hp. Last year I happened to have the chance to drive a single turbo mkIV supra that had an IDENTICAL dyno sheet and although on the highway it was cool my first reflection when I got out of the car was : I don’t want a car with this type of laggy powerband as a daily driver!! So when I heard about a cheap VQ35 the ideas began to turn in my head.

RB26DETT

Pros: -makes a real nice sound and is not too loud (turbo lowers the volume a bit)

-good power even with stock turbos (I was looking for about 350 whp)

-potential for an “easy†500whp

-quite easy to fit in the engine bay as it’s the same layout as stock(inline6) and info on the swap is already available.

Cons: -expensive to buy (and R33GTS-T transmissions are hard to find)

-maintenance parts are not easy to find or fast to get here in Canada

-the used engines I could afford all have some substantial mileage and unknown maintenance history so I don’t know how far away is the next expensive rebuild.

-now that I’ve seen some dyno sheets I think it would lack the midrange response I want for a daily driven car (at least when modified).

VQ35DE

Pros: -price is cheaper

-nearly no mileage on the engine

-stock parts are available at any local nissan dealer

-N/A engine has a great response(especially in a lighter car than a 350z) and good torque range.

-I don’t have to buy or fabricate intercooler and associated piping

-weight saving is not negligible compared to a RB (maybe 200pounds ?? just a guess) and weight distribution should be better too.

Cons: -unknown exhaust note and volume with a custom exhaust(I want a quiet car on the highway)

-makes less power in stock trim(but still enough to reach my initial goal for this project which is to be equal to a bmw M3)

-has less power potential even with upgrades (turbo or sc kits)

-I can’t find info on the swap as not enough people have done it so I don’t know if it’s an easy fit to get the shifter in the right place, the oil pan not to hit the front crossmember…etc

Do you think I am missing something?

Doesn’t anybody have a link to some fit info for this swap? (or any other info for that matter !)

Thanks guys !

[mtcookson]

I've not heard of anyone doing the swap but the VQ35 would definitely be my choice. The RB just lacks too much torque for my range, as you've mentioned.

 

-weight saving is not negligible compared to a RB (maybe 200pounds ?? just a guess) and weight distribution should be better too.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the weight difference was closer to something like 400 lbs. A super lightweight all aluminum V6 compared to a iron block, aluminum head I6.

 

I read of some Maxima guys over at Maxima.org picking up the VQ30 out of a pickup. I believe they estimated it to be under 200 lbs without any accessories. From what I've read, the VQ35 is supposed to be lighter. I believe the block is around 35 lbs lighter.

 

-has less power potential even with upgrades (turbo or sc kits)

 

Negative... try, more potential.

http://www.theexperience.com/recordrun.htm

 

 

I've always thought the VG30DETT to be better than the RB26DETT but the VQ35 seems to have taken its place now. At first I figured it'd be a weak pos due to the aluminum block and such and people weren't having the best of luck with them... but that all changed now.

 

-makes less power in stock trim

 

R33 RB26DETT:

280 hp @ 6,800 rpm

271 tq @ 4,400 rpm

 

Maxima VQ35DE:

265 hp @ 5,800 rpm

255 tq @ 4,400 rpm

 

I've heard the Maxima's dynoing at closer to 280 bhp though, and the base 350Z VQ's are rated at 287 hp @ 6200 and 274 tq. @ 4800. Granted the Skylines probably put out closer to 300 hp, I'm sure they don't have the torque delivery down low that the VQ has even turbocharged. The VQ35 was designed to produce more low end torque compared to the VQ30, which does pretty good down low itself.

 

The weight difference itself would likely make up for any slight power difference to start with. After you boost the VQ it would likely be like night and day.

 

 

I used to be all for the RB26... but then realized the truth that its not all that great compared to some of Nissan's other engines. Don't take me wrong though, I wouldn't mind messing around with one but if I had to choose I'd get the VQ35, VG30DETT, or the VH45 over the RB26 any day.

[turbonat240]

-has less power potential even with upgrades (turbo or sc kits)

 

 

Negative... try, more potential.

 

wow ! nice video !

but I was thinking more about street trim kind of upgrades on a stock block which is kinda limited to about 450 whp to keep the VQ35 alive.

 

-makes less power in stock trim

 

R33 RB26DETT:

280 hp @ 6,800 rpm

271 tq @ 4,400 rpm

 

Maxima VQ35DE:

265 hp @ 5,800 rpm

255 tq @ 4,400 rpm

 

I was more thinking about the whp that's gonna be possible with a stock engine (and stock turbos for the RB26) but with completely remapped electronics (and boost level for the RB26). the difference would be about 120whp and 80wlb/ft.

the numbers I had in mind are :

 

r33gtr RB26 at 14-15 psi/with stock turbos (I know that they desintegrate past this boost level) around 370whp. here is a quote from a quick search on google about stock turbos power for a r33 skyline gtr:"my car now runs at 1.05 bar with 375 whp and 44kg-m of torque. Peak torque comes at 4000 rpm and stays that way till about 6500 rpm". 44kg-m torque equals to 318lb/ft.

 

350z VQ35 with free breathing mods (intake and custom exhaust) would be more around 250whp and 240wtq. here is an example of a 350z run:

 

the car for this run had these mods:Car: 2003 Nissan 350Z Touring 6sp

Mods: None

Dyno: Dynojet 248/224

Whp: 232.88

Torque: 226.36

 

Car: 2003 Nissan 350Z Touring 6sp

Mods: JWT PopCharger, UR Ultra Underdrive Crank Pulley w/ Gates belts, Motordyne 5/16 Plenum Spacer & Iso-Thermal Gasket Kit, and APS Cat-Delete Race Pipes

Dyno: Dynojet 248/224

WHP: 249.45

WTQ: 236.49

 

 

so that's why I say less power in stock trim.

 

thanks for your answer, I appreciate. I'd like more people to give me their opinions like that !

[rp975]

Hi,

 

I don't know if this is of any help, but I am installing a VQ30det into my 1974 260z.

 

Here is a link to some pics.

 

http://img99.imageshack.us/slideshow/player.php?id=img99%2F5987%2F1144737001afm.smil

 

Rob

[turbonat240]

Cool, you did an awesome job for the mounts, it really looks bulletproof! If I choose the VQ35 swap Iwould do the same kind of removable engine cradle. Is your engine mated to a 5 speed trans? Does anybody know if the exterior measurements are the same for the VQ30 and VQ35 blocks?

[rp975]

Hi turbonat240,

 

Thanks for the comment on the mounts, I am just doing what my engineer is asking for.

The trans on my car is an auto, possibly a CVT(constant variable transmission) I will not know for sure untill I get it going.

I do not know for sure, but I would expect that the VQ30det and VQ35de have the same block and external dimensions although the intake would probably be different.

 

There is a guy with a silver 240Z with a VQ35de installed that I have seen on one of the forums in past events pictures, although he has his motor further forward, not behind the crossmember.

 

Here is a link to a pic of the car.

 

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=14961&cat=3226

 

Rob

[jdizzy204]

my daily driver is a g35c 6mt and i love the vq35. id love to help any way possible with scraping up info on this swap. vq powaaaaa:D

[qwik240z]

Hi turbonat240' date='

 

I would expect that the VQ30det and VQ35de have the same block and external dimensions although the intake would probably be different.

 

Rob[/quote']

 

There is a guy on the 510 list that is in the process of doing a Vq30 swap. He has told me that the Vq35 motor is quite a bit taller then the Vq30. It may just be the intake but I am not sure.

 

I have owned a 2002 Maxima for 4 years with the 255HP Vq35 and it is a great motor. Tons of torque and lots of power in a 3500 pound car. I just sold it (3 weeks ago) and replaced it with a 2006 Infiniti G35 AWD. It also has the Vq35 but it is now 280HP and 270 Torque. It is a blast to drive.

 

I love the VQ35 motors and have been thinking about swapping one into my 510. I will be watching this thread to see how you do.

 

Good Luck

[mtcookson]

From what I've read, internally the weakest link of the VQ35's is the rods so I'd probably just start with those to hold the power.

 

I think a quick spooling turbo at low boost on a stock VQ would be an absolute blast. Having the higher compression would probably also net you better fuel economy as well. You could upgrade internals and such down the road for a real strong street monster and something that could be taken to the track a lot too.

 

However you do it, I think in the end the VQ would give the low end power that you're looking for and if you want to go crazy on it, it definitely has the potential.

 

Good luck with everything!

[RedBeauty84ZX]

 

 

I've always thought the VG30DETT to be better than the RB26DETT but the VQ35 seems to have taken its place now. At first I figured it'd be a weak pos due to the aluminum block and such and people weren't having the best of luck with them... but that all changed now.

 

I would rather have the VG over the VQ or RB...

[mtcookson]

The VG is definitely an awesome motor. I would take one over an RB any day but they're definitely very heavy compared to the VQ, heck even Nissan's V8's.

 

I think, V6 wise, the VG has finally met its match with the VQ35.

[jdizzy204]

some jgtc zs use tt vq motors:burnout:

[mtcookson]

i believe they even used some in their [first ever] pikes peak cars... if i remember it correctly that's how it was.

[RedBeauty84ZX]

I think' date=' V6 wise, the VG has finally met its match with the VQ35.[/quote']

 

I dont think so. The VG has a iron block, closed deck, shot peened forged rods, forged crank, and a crank girdle. The VQ is an aluminum block, open deck, full cast internals and no crank girdle. Its a much weaker platform...

[260DET]

I dont think so. The VG has a iron block, closed deck, shot peened forged rods, forged crank, and a crank girdle. The VQ is an aluminum block, open deck, full cast internals and no crank girdle. Its a much weaker platform...

 

Yeh, the VQ was designed to comply with emission requirements and other non performance criteria. The VG was designed at a time when performance was everything. Know what my priorities are

[mtcookson]

I dont think so. The VG has a iron block, closed deck, shot peened forged rods, forged crank, and a crank girdle. The VQ is an aluminum block, open deck, full cast internals and no crank girdle. Its a much weaker platform...

 

Then why exactly has the VQ35 broken the Nissan drag record previously held by the VG30DETT????

 

No, it is not a much weaker platform. The block itself supposedly could handle 2000 hp in its stock form. The die casting process is very strong. Put in a sleeve setup, build the hell out of it, slap on some properly sized turbos, and you'll out perform the VG as already proven.

 

The VG block uses a sand casting process. You can have a closed deck design with that process but the only downside is for any thickness of the metal... a die cast block of the same size would be substantially stronger.

 

And who said it has "fully cast internals"?? I'm sorry, but that's flat out hilarious. Starting sometime in the 70's the Nissan rods have always been forged. The crank is going to be forged. The only piece of cast you'll find in that thing is going to be the pistons and I guaranty its going to have a girdle.

 

Then from there, the VQ is at the very least half as heavy as the VG not only making the car lighter overall, but improving weight distribution, which would help greatly in a track car.

 

I was once in the belief that the VQ would be weak due to the aluminum block design... but its simply not true. Actually, now that I think of it Electromotive went to an aluminum block for its VG30ET (that made nearly 1200 hp in qualification trim) to increase its reliability.

 

The majority of the engines these days are made of aluminum, a lot of race engines as well. This isn't your old aluminum that you'd find warped all of the time. Technology has come a long way and the aluminum these days is pretty darn good as you can tell by its heavy use in racing.

[RedBeauty84ZX]

Then why exactly has the VQ35 broken the Nissan drag record previously held by the VG30DETT????

 

No' date=' it is not a much weaker platform. The block itself supposedly could handle 2000 hp in its stock form. The die casting process is very strong. Put in a sleeve setup, build the hell out of it, slap on some properly sized turbos, and you'll out perform the VG as already proven.

 

The VG block uses a sand casting process. You can have a closed deck design with that process but the only downside is for any thickness of the metal... a die cast block of the same size would be substantially stronger.

 

And who said it has "fully cast internals"?? I'm sorry, but that's flat out hilarious. Starting sometime in the 70's the Nissan rods have always been forged. The crank is going to be forged. The only piece of cast you'll find in that thing is going to be the pistons and I guaranty its going to have a girdle.

 

Then from there, the VQ is at the very least half as heavy as the VG not only making the car lighter overall, but improving weight distribution, which would help greatly in a track car.

 

I was once in the belief that the VQ would be weak due to the aluminum block design... but its simply not true. Actually, now that I think of it Electromotive went to an aluminum block for its VG30ET (that made nearly 1200 hp in qualification trim) to [b']increase its reliability[/b].

 

The majority of the engines these days are made of aluminum, a lot of race engines as well. This isn't your old aluminum that you'd find warped all of the time. Technology has come a long way and the aluminum these days is pretty darn good as you can tell by its heavy use in racing.

 

VQ does not have a forged crank sorry. When I see street VQs making 1000+RWHP then I will believe it. As far as stock blocks go the VG is much stronger.

[mtcookson]

VQ does not have a forged crank sorry. When I see street VQs making 1000+RWHP then I will believe it. As far as stock blocks go the VG is much stronger.

 

Prove it... I guaranty Nissan is not going to downgrade their top of the line engine. The crank is going to be forged.

 

I'd like to see street VG's making 1000+ rwhp as well... there aren't that many out there... a handful maybe. As cool as the VG is... there surprisingly aren't that many extremely high power VG's out there. You'll find quite a few in the 500-600 hp range and from then on increasingly less.

 

Stock vs stock, if both were boosted the VG would probably make slightly more power than the VQ before they both blew something up. Possibly a difference of 100-200 hp. When they're both built up though... the VQ will likely win, as already proven.

[evoandy]

Prove it... I guaranty Nissan is not going to downgrade their top of the line engine. The crank is going to be forged.

 

I'd like to see street VG's making 1000+ rwhp as well... there aren't that many out there... a handful maybe. As cool as the VG is... there surprisingly aren't that many extremely high power VG's out there. You'll find quite a few in the 500-600 hp range and from then on increasingly less.

 

Stock vs stock' date=' if both were boosted the VG would probably make slightly more power than the VQ before they both blew something up. Possibly a difference of 100-200 hp. When they're both built up though... the VQ will likely win, as already proven.[/quote']

 

 

and I suppose there are tons of 1000+whp street VQs running around? The vast majority of "powerful" Z33s i've seen make ~500 whp. And it severely drops off after about that power level. The VG has been proven to reliably make 600whp in Z32TTs on a completely stock block. YOu'd definitely have to build a VQ to make that much reliable hp.

[mtcookson]

When I see street VQs making 1000+RWHP then I will believe it.

 

I'd like to see street VG's making 1000+ rwhp as well...

 

and I suppose there are tons of 1000+whp street VQs running around?

 

???

 

 

YOu'd definitely have to build a VQ to make that much reliable hp.

 

Because stock for stock, the VQ was built to have very light weight internals. The rods are likely much less stout than the VG's. With equal internals (rods, pistons, etc) the VQ will likely be making more power just as reliably... or more. From a lot that I've read on the VG30DETT, they tend to have cooling issues stock, which is due to casting imperfections. The VQ isn't going to have the casting imperfections that the VG will have.

 

The VQ is simply a more advanced engine and has replaced the VG and the RB.