smog laws nationwide to duplicate california's laws ?

[waynekarnes]

there was a 3 or so paragraph article in san jose murky news stating the feds are considering making california's smog laws the nation's standards. you want fed highway funds, you comply to the national standards.

 

anyone else hear anything about this ?

 

http://www.pbs.org/now/science/caautoemissions2.html

 

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060629/APF/606290980

 

http://cleanairarticles.blogspot.com/2006/03/few-stories-on-national-research.html

[Moridin]

I think its a good idea except for the visual. If the car can pass California tail pipe standards, it should be fine.

 

The reality is that the U.S. is behind a lot of other nations in the world when it comes to auto emissions. That's really bad considering we have one of the largest automotive markets in the world.

[Pop N Wood]

I think its a good idea except for the visual. If the car can pass California tail pipe standards' date=' it should be fine.

 

The reality is that the U.S. is behind a lot of other nations in the world when it comes to auto emissions. That's really bad considering we have one of the largest automotive markets in the world.[/quote']

 

Man, who are you, Ralph Nader? I don't need no stinking smog inspections on my 36 year old hot rod!!!!

[grumpyvette]

that SUCKS, theres ALREADY far to many restrictions, licences and B.S. involved with cars, and very little if any PROOF that cars are a major factor and not other sources like manufacturers, heating , power production, ETC. cause smog, in fact most DATA suggests cars are a MINOR FACTOR in comparison...BUT like most things ITS MONEY DRIVEN, YOU can tax and restrict and finacially bleed dry the average car owner and make it appear your accomplishing something while raking in a HUGE NEVER ENDING PROFIT

[strotter]

That may be true in Florida, but I live in northern California and can tell you that even with the "Smog Nazi" rules we have here, smog is a problem. As I look out my east windows at this very moment, I can't see the mountains - they're thirty, forty miles away. The horizon all around is brownish-grey by late afternoon, and sometimes (towards the end of summer) clouds will appear to be off-white. Granted, in this area we get the "blow-over" from the SF Bay area, but nevertheless, there's a serious problem. Go to L.A. in the summer, you'll start to think that the little exhaust leaks we have in our Z's is, well, everywhere. And it's *much* better now than it was 20 years ago.

 

Personally, I don't think it makes sense to apply California rules to the whole nation, as most of the nation doesn't have the problem we have here. On the other hand, from a manufacturer's perspective, it might make sense just in terms of standardizing their fleets and lowering their costs. I believe quite a few manufacturers already use the California guidelines for all their U.S. cars - I think Honda and Toyota, though it's been some time since I read about it.

 

On the other hand, it *would* make sense if the feds would raise the CAFE mileage standard - no matter how clean you burn, CO2 is the ultimate "perfect" product of a clean burn, and that's the chemical we ultimately need to get a handle on, for both ecological and political reasons.

 

I'm hoping this thread won't be considered "political", but I'm afraid it might get that way quick...

[AKWIKZ]

Man, who are you, Ralph Nader? I don't need no stinking smog inspections on my 36 year old hot rod!!!!

 

Your car would not be affected then. Only cars newer than '74 are required to be inspected. Anything older is exempt from these. Several other states have there own type of inspection which could be more of a pain than California, believe it or not. I now live in Az., and here all cars newer than '65 have to have a tailpipe test every two years. No visual, and the standards are not as high, but still, my cars would be required to pass if I chose to register them here.

 

As for the smog problem, yes cars have made an impact. But it has also been proven that a large amount of this is due to factory emmisions over the last 50 years. In fact, many of you may not know the story behind the California B.A.R. and smog inspections. When they first started the progrem it actually had a set life span. It was decided that by 2000, all new cars would already be running clean enough and that the strict tests would weed out the high polluting cars. This was combined with a Government buyback plan that gave people between $500 and $700 for their old cars. Of couse, the smog check process became a huge money maker for the state and as such they burried the original plan and instead upped the stakes in 2000 with actual dyno type inspections. They also raised the standards to the point that fewer old cars were able to pass. It was a huge fight on behalf of the collector car community to keep them from recinding the exemption of older cars. It used to be a 25 year roller. A compromise was reached to set the cut off at '74 and keep the exemption. In reality most cars now on Ca. roads are pretty good. But there is little chance of the smog checks ever leaving. Far too much money comes out of it. In fact, I believe this is closer to the real motive behind a Federal standard. Millions of dollars waiting to be sucked out of the pockets of hardworking Joe Average.

 

Brian

[Okimoto]

I know what you're talking about, Strotter. I remember as a kid, I was told that it was too smoggy to play outside. We had these smog alert levels, and almost every day it was unhealthy to be outside.

 

But yeah that's all crap. I drive a Z with a bad hatch seal so it doesn't bother me anymore. Who needs to see the mountains anyways. I hardly ever go there, and I don't need to see them to know where I'm going.

 

I don't like california smog laws, but I see that they serve their purpose here in california. I just wish they had a rolling 30 year exemption, not too many people drive 30 year old cars on a daily basis, and I really hate taking my 76 motorhome for a smog every 2 years.

[OlderThanMe]

here the law is that any 81 or older vehicle is exempt. plus you can do whatever for a motor swap and they don't really care as long as the car is more than 25 years old.

I think they should just apply the new smog laws to cars now being made and not change the laws for older cars. California sshould keep their laws because of the problems. I have been to the SF bay area and even there I could see the brown smog across the bay. I think there should be more strict regulations on big trucks than cars. Trucks are always leaving big plumes of black smoke which has to be at least 15-20 cars worth of pollution.

[Tony240ZT]

Ummm.. They still have that smog meeter here on some news stations, and you have to check to see if you can burn wood durring the winter before using your fire place. If the air isn't considered clean enough to burn wood, then you will get fined. I think our air quality here at the bottom of the San Joaquin valley is only second to LA's. I too can't see mountains just 20-30 miles away, except right after a rainy day. I'd love to be over on the coast where the bad air gets flushed out, and it's not so freaking hot.

 

I got the `81 280ZX to pass smog earlier this year. Cost me like $65 for the test after a cut out from the yellow pages. I think it helped that I've only got about 20K miles on the cat.

[grumpyvette]

what you may not be aware of is californias central valley has had SMOG before there were cars and factories, the local INDIANS used to call it

"the valley of SMOKE"

because even in the early 1800s the smoke from camp fires seemed to stay stuck in the valley

in most places the winds and rain tend to clear the air but in california its trapped by the geographical features and wind patterns

[Tim240z]

Tony,

I believe that the SJV has actually exceeded the LA basin in bad air quality.....

Tim

[DavyZ]

what you may not be aware of is californias central valley has had SMOG before there were cars and factories' date=' the local INDIANS used to call it

"the valley of SMOKE"

because even in the early 1800s the smoke from camp fires seemed to stay stuck in the valley

in most places the winds and rain tend to clear the air but in california its trapped by the geographical features and wind patterns[/quote']

 

 

Grumpy, you are correct. The inversion layer was huge well before the automobile and it was caused by the Indians. People forget this. And yes, geography has everything to do with where smog goes in CA. San Francisco where I work has extremely good air quality---because the majority of the smog migrates south and east.

 

I think such smog laws in the rest of the country are overkill except in the most extreme cases (cars with cloudy blue exhaust pouring from the backend of the car).

 

I'm with Okimoto about the 30 year rolling exemption--I wish they would never have killed that. Bastards.

 

Davy

[strotter]

Interesting thing about the pre-'74 exemptions: seems now it's pre-'75! check http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm#BM2535 . I don't know when it happened, or why; perhaps Der Governator has a '75 something-or-other he got tired of smogging?

 

You might note, too, that California doesn't require smog checks everywhere: only in "designated" counties, though that seems like most of 'em. (I don't even know how many counties my state has. Sad). Perhaps that'd be the "loophole" for the rest of the country: they'll conform to the California rules, then not designate any counties for smog inspection!

[tfreer85]

Tony' date='

I believe that the SJV has actually exceeded the LA basin in bad air quality.....

Tim[/quote']

I think we did a while ago Tim, I think we're some where around the Top 5 in the nation including a nearby city of Arvin we hold two positions up there if IIRC. Good ol' smoggy Bakersfield, they say the smog is the reason we have such beautiful sunsets.

 

Tyson

[Twoeightnine]

In Denver they too have no burn days because of the inversion effect.

It's a clear point that a ban on burning wood in ones fire place has little to do with autos.

Airborn particulate matter of any kind is going to turn the skies brown.

 

Regardless I venture to say that the national laws will resemble the California laws but not exactly. I, for one, hope that the year cut off is extended to ...lets say 1980.

 

Now that wouldn't be because I have a 77 would it!

[Moridin]

Man, who are you, Ralph Nader? I don't need no stinking smog inspections on my 36 year old hot rod!!!!

 

No, but there a social responsibilty involved. When my Datsun is all said and done, I will be running catalytic converters and a decent tune. I love to roast off tires and spit black crap as much as the next guy, but when I go to LA and have a white washcloth turn almost black after wiping my face off due to being outside in the smog all day, I change my thinking.

[Pop N Wood]

No, but there a social responsibilty involved.

 

Do you really want to get into that discusssion?

[iaconsultants]

Well in Houston/Harris county and surrounding counties we already have the same smog checking that California does but it is only for cars that are 24 years or younger. The bad part about these checks are that they can simply say they will not pass the car if they see something that is not factory on the car and it is all up to them. Granted at this time there are very few inspection places that know what they are looking at so they generally pass it and if you don't pass, I believe you only have a month to make it pass in our area or the car can not be driven. My 4-Runner did not pass once just because it was not a stock engine in the bay. The guy had a 4-Runner himself and noticed there was a difference, he removed my sticker and stuck on a white piece of paper showing that it failed. I was pulled over twice in the next week just to have the white piece of paper date checked. That weekend I went to another inspection place, removed the paper before I went, said I had my windshield replaced, and it went through just fine including getting smog tested.

 

I heard in California that it is really difficult if you do an engine swap on a car especially if you swap from a carb'd car to a fuel injection car or vise versa. I hope this does not pass through to everyone else or many of us may not be so lucky even if our cars are beyond the year date.

[dskubitz]

I'm with moridin on this one. Even though my 71 is inspection exempt, I am using all of the smog equipment from a later model car including a cat, egr, o2 sensor, etc. Even though it's over kill and has virtually no emissions, it still is not smog legal in CA. Why, because it has a programable ECU on the 83 engine. CA does not care about how clean the exhuast is, they only care about having everything the same as it was from the factory. Hope the other states will adopt a more reasonable law than CA has.

[Guest 81na ZX]

Well, none of my cars have ever had to be tested - not even my emision-less 91 Talon or my 97 Jetta. But theres been talk of Michigan adopting a test... Highly doubt it will happen though.

 

We do have "smog days" during the summer when your not supposed to fill up or mow the lawn during the day. And thoes are different from no burn times - when the risk of forest fire is high