73_240z Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I know that I may get the should have used the search comment however I did search and couldnt find anything and many specific models of welders. I am going to be using it for miscellanous body and for remaking my front frame rails ( going to be cutting the old ones out and welding in new ones ) will something like http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=55250 suffice?..I am currently going through my paramedic training and money is low but then again wasting 150dollars on a p.o.s. welder wont help. Any input will be appreciated thank you -Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trippintl0 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I think if used with gas it may be OK for frame rails. Getting good welds on body might be harder with that welder. I have no experience with that welder so I can't say for sure. Personally I plan on getting a Millermatic 135 MIG welder, about $600 (plus cost of accessories). Small, good quality, reliable. A lot of it is just opinion. You could probably do the job with a super cheap welder, with flux core wire and all. It might look crappy and take 3x as much work to get all the slag off. Whereas a better quality welder will have better control over heat, wire speed, prettier welds, and possibly even better quality welds (a lot of this is dependant on the operator too, of course). For body work, good heat control is important because too much and you'll warp the sheet metal. MY opinion is that if you plan on keeping it a while and using for more than frame rails, get a better quality welder than that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73_240z Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 thanks. I personally have no clue what to really look for in a welder because I am as new to welding as anyone could possibly be. I tried it once with my buddies welder a couple years back but other than that I have absolutly no experience what so ever. I wouldn't even attempt to do my own frame rails if I had the money to take it to shop but I think i have a pretty good idea on how to do it with keeping the body straight and etc. just have to learn how to weld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boodlefoof Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 For bodywork you probably want to have: (1) a welder that uses shielding gas (a MIG) as opposed to a wire welder that simply uses flux-cored wire; and (2) infinite voltage and wire speed control. For doing stuff like frame rails, you want to have a welder with enough amperage to adequately penetrate the heavier guage steel. If you're doing heavy enough welding work this means getting a 230v machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 If you learn to weld on a cheap machine, you will have a hard time telling if problems are your fault or the machines. Sheet metal can be hard to weld without burning through. It takes time to learn how to do. At the same time you need fine control of the heat to get halfway decent welds on sheet metal. If the machine doesn't give you that control, then you will burn up a lot of sheet metal thinking it is just your fault. Keep searching for first hand opinions on that specific machine before you buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 If you are doing body work and thin frames like on a Z then a Millermatic 135 will suffice. If you are doing a roll cage or something thick like that you want a stronger welder like a Millermatic 175 or 210. Don't get the Hobart version of the Miller 135. It has like 5 voltage settings and infinite wire speed settings. It may be the other way around though. The Miller is the way to go for sure. I have seen the Millermatic 135 for around $530 on www.cyberweld.com . They have free shipping on welders and accessories and have VERY competitive prices. I'll probably end up getting a show model of a welder at a welding show since you can get really good prices on slightly used equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I was getting set to pop for something along the lines of the MM175... kept getting close to a deal on used equipment and something would fall through. Then I got a chance to use the ThermalArc 210. Very impressed!! It uses tapped voltage, but it is macro and micro adjustment, so very much the same as infinite control... but the arc was very, very nice. I was able to get a feel for it and run a test quality bead very quickly, and that was in spite of poor lighting conditions. (bright light reflecting off the inside of my lense.) I have to say I like it better than the Miller, which is pretty much the benchmark these days. I dont think there is a MM135 equivalent, but the Fabricator 190 would run me about $700, only $150 more than the MM135. If I had a hard budget ceiling of $00-$600 tho, I would get the MM135. (definitely use the gas shielding.) tannji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I have seen a VW baja bug dune buggy that had a main suspension pivot point welded on with a MM135 and he took a small jump and snapped the suspension on that corner of the car off and bent the shock like 30 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt1will620 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I have seen a VW baja bug dune buggy that had a main suspension pivot point welded on with a MM135 and he took a small jump and snapped the suspension on that corner of the car off and bent the shock like 30 degrees. more than likely operator error... Personally, ide stay away from the harborfreight china crap welders, go with a good name brand like miller, or buy a used one, i bought a century 130 used for about $150, has infinate amerage and wire speed control, and can be used on 110 or 220. thermal arc is also pretty decent stuff, especially for the price! I have one of their DC dragster machines set up for scrath tig, and i was VERY impressed with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Generally, it is a poor workman who blames his tools, however, in the case of welders, a good weldeing machine is a lot easier to get a quality weld out of. There are so many variables when welding - heat, wire speed, is the metal properly cleaned, if thick - too thick for a single pass...In short - it is up to the person welding to make a good weld. The MM135 was most assuredly NOT the weak link in that Baja Bug problem. If the actual weld failed, that is a result of bad welding prep or technique. If the metal around the weld failed, but not the weld itself, the it may have gotten too hot or been poor quality metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO-Z Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Cheap welders are like cheap beer, not worth a darn. I used a borrowed cheap MIG welder on my convertible project. It would weld great on one bead and then I would fight it on the next. I spent more time fighting the welder and grinding out welds than I ever should have. Go to your local welding store and find out when they will have there next sale on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73_240z Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 thanks guys...saving me some money here . Any of you guys from around cleveland that would be interested in helping. That would be even better http://forums.hybridz.org/images/icons/icon10.gif Talking -Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFancypants Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Personally, ide stay away from the harborfreight china crap welders, go with a good name brand like miller, or buy a used one If youre going to buy new, I'd go with the MM 175. However, I'd recommend going used and get way more welder for your money. You can always unload it later and sell it for close to what you paid for it. I just bought a used MM 185 on Ebay for the price of a new MM 175. Definitely go with Ebay... even if you buy new. The prices there are going to beat the local store. Then hit your local store for accessories and consumables. Again, if youre in no rush, keep searching Ebay for a few weeks and try to snatch up a good deal on a used Miller. - Greg - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 "Personally, ide stay away from the harborfreight china crap welders, go with a good name brand like miller, or buy a used one" good advice!!! most of the less expensive welders at harbor freight are lets say, usable but just barely....Ive been with my brother-in-law whos bought and returned two mig welders from harbor freight, both "worked" BARELY,we finaly got him a HOBART , it at least works reasonably well, but youll be far ahead buying a quality stick welder if moneys tight, it will do a decent job for about what a P.O.S. mig will cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73_240z Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 I know I'm gonna sound really dumb here and I could search for it and i will if nobody feels like answering but what is the difference between the welders. Brief description.. edit* mig, tig, and stick -Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 if you don,t know the differance thats a GREAT QUESTION! http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=108912&highlight=tig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt1will620 Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 I know I'm gonna sound really dumb here and I could search for it and i will if nobody feels like answering but what is the difference between the welders. Brief description.. edit* mig, tig, and stick -Ron MIG=Metal Inert Gas, or some will call it a wire welder, the wire is fed through the "Gun" and is itself the electrode and filler metal. An inert gas, normally C25 is emmited from the tip of the gun to protect or sheild the weld pool untill it cools. There are also "Wire Feed" or Flux Core welders, which are just like MIG welders without the gas, the wire itself has a flux core that protects the weld when burned. Stick or Arc welding uses a metal stick more or less as an electrode/filler metal with material around the stick that melts as the stick burns to protect the weld. TIG=Tungsten Inert Gas, also called Heli-arc by the old timers, uses a non-comsumable tungsten electrode to creat the arc, filler metal is added by hand in the form of a rod, and a gas is also emitted from the gun to protect the weld. If your going to buy a wire welder, buy one that is able to use gas, cause frankly, flux core sucks. Arc welding is a great, CHEAP welding process, that can produce very good welds if the user knows what their doing. TIG is pretty much accepted as the best welding process, mainly because of the way a TIG weld looks once completeled(typical stack of dimes weld) but also because of its ability to change amperage(heat) as the welder theirselves are welding, thus, a skilled welder can usually produce a stronger, better looking weld. However, all welding processes, when performed correctly, will yield a weld joint that is stronger than the surounding metal being welded. EDIT: Or, read grumpy vetts post above me...haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 my welding instructor in college , back in the 1960s used to say, frequently "a monkey could be trained to mig weld with properly set up equipment,... stick welding takes skill and practice, but its far from difficult once you get the idea and some practice,...even you idiots will manage.... tig takes some intelligence, too operate but can produce true works of art, in skilled hands, Ive got my work cut out getting some of you to that level" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuntry Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 I have one of the cheep-o harbor freight gassless migs. To be honest, I love it....... for small jobs. I wouldnt trust it with anything that has to support any real loads. But around here, while working on the frame rails, its been great to tack things in place untill I can get the pieces to work and hit them with the big mig. I also used it to weld the filler door shut, and if I had a little more patience, I think it really would have come out nice. Got too ancy and didnt give the panel time to cool so I got some warpage. All in all, Id say that it was well worth the 100 bucks I paid for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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