Ok all you gun guys! I need some help!

[80LS1T]

Ok I know we have some real gun nuts on the board so here's what I'm looking for....

 

I am looking for a new handgun to hunt deer with. I live in a shotgun only zone in my state but handguns are permited. I am not really sure what to get. I was looking at the 7mm-08(Thompson, I believe) but I am having some trouble finding one. I don't want a .44 mag(kicks too much to be accurate for me) but a .357 might be a choice. What are some guns you guys would recommend for the job?(calibers/brands)

 

I am looking at something that can take a deer down from 100 yards or closer. I am thinking I will want a scope on it too for the longer shots.

 

Thanks,

 

Guy

[Pop N Wood]

Will be interesting to hear what anyone who actually uses a 357 to hunt deer posts about their experiences.

 

IMO 3a 57 is a little light for deer, especially if you are thinking about 100 yard shots. It can be done but the dificultly of placing such a light round accurately enough for a clean kill seems a little unfair to the animal. Especially if recoil affects the accuracy of your shooting.

 

I have an older S&W model 627. It is a 357 built on their N frame revolver , the one they normally use with 44 mags. Smith called it a "Hunter" model. The gun is very pleasant to shoot, even with hot rounds. Accurate, too. Even though I could routinely put 5 rounds through the same hole at 25 feet, it would be stretch to think I could reliably make clean lung shots at 100 yards.

[grumpyvette]

"Ok I know we have some real gun nuts on the board "

 

guilty as charged

 

OK Ive handgun hunted DEER for years,shot placement and bullet construction has far more to do with your results than any reasonable caliber choice, the 357 mag will flat out kill deer, its effective and acurate in the correct pistol, Id suggest a model 686 smith in 8 3/8 barrel length, I had no problems killing deer for several years with one, results were always similar, the deer run after impact but drop within 30-100 yards IF you did your part and placed the bullet correctlybut its just not the best choice simply because, at 100 yards it lacks the punch necessary to really impress the deer on impact., the 44 mag generally has the advantage, deer sometimes drop in a few yards, but mostly run 30-60 yards

 

the pistol and the loads you choose has a huge effect on the recoil levels

single actions like the ruger super blackhawk kick or recoil a great deal differantly than a well designed double action, because the barrel is higher in relation to your hand and they tend to be lighter in weight.

now Ive hunted with revolvers in calibers 480 ruger,454 cassul , 44 mag, 445 super mag ,10mm auto , and a 30/30 and a 375 win caliber, contender

if you go with a scope the contender in 30/30s a decent choice,

hand loading your own ammo is a huge advantage, personally out of all of them I like EITHER MY DAN WESSON 10" BARREL 44 mag REVOLVER, or the 10" barrel 44 mag S&W REVOLVER ,I have, loaded with hard cast 280 grain bullets over 21 grains of H110

 

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html

 

44 cal

 

 

357 cal

 

40 cal/10mm

 

 

before you get started lets make a few things clear, NO HANDGUN will ALWAYS or even frequently drop deer on impact, they WILL USUALLY RUN a short distance, and at times give little or no indication they were hit, your target is or should be the arteries over the heart

the big DAN WESSON REVOLVER weights a good deal more than the S&W and makes shooting a 44 mag easy, don,t get crazy thinking you need extreme velocitys, a 280 grain hard cast bullet at 1200fps zips clear thru deer at 100 yards in most cases

 

http://home.mn.rr.com/deerfever/Anatomy.html

 

hit there, and the deers dead in seconds, he may run a short distance but with those hard cast 280 grain caliber 44 slugs zipping clear thru and a massive leak on both sides he will be reasonably easy to trail for the few yards necessary.

now if you use a 357 mag youll get similar results, the distance traveled tends to be slightly longer and the blood trail kind of skimpy but the results are a dead deer with either caliber PROVIDED YOU CAN SHOOT WELL

.

 

ID ALSO POINT OUT AN OPTION

 

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=194&category=Revolver

 

the taurus raging bull in a 8" stainless IN CALIBER 41 MAG

youll have noticably less recoil than a 44 mag but almost the same power levels, and these are well made revolvers, yeah taurus USED to be junk 20 years ago , but they improved so much that they are not even similar to the crud they used to sell, Id buy and use one of these vs MY S&W or DAN WESSON if I was starting today and didn,t own my current pistols

 

BTW I find scopes to be a TOTAL P.I.T.A. they make carry and use of the pistol slower and heavier, and with practice you can shoot a revolver into a 4"-6" paper plate or a deers heasrt/lung area at 100 yards or less with ease from a sitting or rested shot, but most of your shots tend to be in the 50-70 yard range,(especially in heavy cover or from a tree stand) and with practice a two hand hold, and a carefully squeezed off shot is accurate enough every last time

 

now IM sure your thinking "WHY DOES HE USED HARD CAST VS JACKETED BULLLETS"

to be a good shot takes ALOT of PRACTICE, youll need ALOT of ammo and casting your own bullets saves A TON OF CASH!

PLUS most jacketed bullets expand too fast and don,t exit, leaving little or no blood trail and the deer STILL RUN a short distance, Ive found both the accuracy and the effect on impact better with the hard cast

[pete280z]

http://www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=BFR45-70

[dr_hunt]

Well, I've killed deer with my .45 and .400 Corbon, but that's not what I'm recommending. I've killed deer with my .357 S&W Mod 19, custom that larry took pictures of an posted, drives tacks. I've killed deer and antelope with the .44 Mag S&W Mod 686 with custom 10.25" barrel, comp, double crane locks, .007 cylinder gap (actually on all wheel guns I shoot that tight of a gap).

 

Now for the meaty version. TC contender, .357 Herrett with a super 14 bull barrel, you have to make and load your own ammo though. Drops deer in their tracks! If you think the .44 mag kicks the 7mm-08 makes the .44 look like a pussy cat. The .357 is a little light on deer. The .41 mag is a great choice, not as much recoil as the .44 and alot more energy than the .357 at 100 yards.

 

.41 mag gets my vote here in a TC contender or encore loaded with JHP bullets for the thick country. Lead slugs don't help you much if you happen to have an ill placed shot where a JHP will leave a blood trail.

[SuperDan]

Im gonna go with the .41mag also, nice round and if you hand load they can be pretty hot.

In a TC if recoil is an issue then I would go with 7x30 Waters on a ported barrel, kicks like a 22 and very flat shooting.

And I agree with the doc, a 7mm-08 on a non-ported barrell is gonna hurt after a while

[Shuyun]

I have only shot a couple of times with hand guns but I have shot a couple 357s a single 454 and a S&W 500 of the magnums the 500 was the best shooting in terms of kick I was able to shoot it for most of the afternoon where as the 454 hurt my wrist to shoot and the 357s both climbed.

I am not a gun nut and these commits are from a couple afternoons at the police shooting range with my buddies.

[JMortensen]

I'd suggest a Freedom Arms .454 Casull. Counterintuitive, I know, but when I was 14 and weighed 120 lbs I was able to shoot the 240 grain factory ammo one handed, and that load would definitely take down a deer at 100 yards. A lot of design that went into the grip of that revolver. I think Grumpy kind of alluded to this but the double actions are designed not to raise the muzzle as much. A Bisley Ruger or the FA with the rounded grip gives you a TON of muzzle lift compared to a DA revolver, but that's eating up that energy that otherwise gets transferred directly to your palm. The WORST thing you can do with a SA revolver is put compensator ports on it, but it's a fairly common mistake. I should say that my Uncle was the president of FA in the mid 80s, so all of my experience with the gun (including shooting 340 grain custom handloads made by JD Jones himself) and most of these ideas came through him. I would not get a Super Redhawk in .454 or anything like that, because of the grip design. It would beat your hand up rather quickly. Other than that, if you're not into getting slapped in the hand by a DA grip design, a Ruger Bisley in .44 mag or .41 mag would also be sufficient, but I like the idea that you can load up the .454 if you want and take on just about anything.

 

The TC Contender is a great gun, but it is brutal to shoot IMO. My friend had one in .44 mag with the 14" barrel and also had a .223 barrel for it. We handloaded some shells fairly hot and took it to a pistol silhouette range. I did pretty good at the 200 yard silhouettes, practiced for a while then hit 9/10 with open sights when we were actually going for it, after we had gotten comfortable getting into those weird lay down positions to fire accurately at that range. At the end of the day I had shot maybe 50 rounds through it. The trigger guard had ripped off the skin on the knuckle on my ring finger. Getting a Contender in 7mm-08 is not a good idea if you don't like recoil, although I haven't shot one with a muzzle brake, and that might make a huge difference.

 

I haven't been THAT into shooting since I was about 16 or 17, so I'm way out of the loop as to the last 10 years worth of innovation.

[SuperDan]

Yup, a TC can be brutal in various ways.

Example, I have a 10 inch 44 mag barrel that has a comp on it. It is down right painfull to shoot with some of my hot loaded 240gr behind Win 296 powder. The same loads out of my super blackhawk are much easier on the hand.

Also, there is different kinds of pain. I have a 14 inch .223 barrel for my TC that has a muzzle brake, the recoil is like a pellet gun but the muzzle blast and report are horrific!

I once had one of my ear plugs slip out of my ear slighlty while shooting it, the pain was unreal, my ear rang for 2 weeks and I know I have lost some hearing in that ear because of it.

[JMortensen]

Oops! Forgot to mention something. If you go SA and try to roll the barrel up for less severe recoil, DO NOT GET RUBBER GRIPS! Stick with wood grips. The rubber will get traction on your hand and prevent the rounded part of the grip from sliding in your palm, which is what it does when the barrel comes up.

[grumpyvette]

what ever you choose keep in mind these factors

 

(1)ONLY PRECISELY PLACED HITS get the job done CORRECTLY

 

(2)YOUR LEVEL OF SKILL DEPENDS ON CONSTANT AND SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF PRACTICE

 

(3) power is no substitute for correct shot placement, and BULLET CONSTUCTION MATTERS

 

(4) know your REALISTIC ACCURATE SHOT PLACEMENT RANGE LIMITS and DON,T TAKE SHOTS BEYOND THEM

 

(5)make DAMN SURE OF YOUR TARGET, and WHATS BEYOND IT BEFORE FIRING

 

(6)PRIDE YOURSELF ON GETTING IN CLOSE,AND PRECISELY PLACING A SINGLE PERFECT SHOT, LONG RANGE, LOW PERCENTAGE SHOTS , are the mark of an AMATUER

[dr_hunt]

I once had one of my ear plugs slip out of my ear slighlty while shooting it, the pain was unreal, my ear rang for 2 weeks and I know I have lost some hearing in that ear because of it.

 

So that's why you never hear your wife calling you!

 

I shoot the .357 herrett with 180gr Single shot pistol bullets, non ported barrell, drops 'em pretty quick, never had one go farther than 20 or 30 yards.

[80LS1T]

Well I bought a "Raging Bull" .454! I will have some pics on Sunday after I pick it up. It has more of a mirror finish than the one in Grumpy's pic and I think the barrel is a tad shorter. I had a 2X power scope put on also. All in all I paid $791 for the whole set up. I traded in my Ruger Red Label over and under shotgun for $750 so I only shelled out $41!

 

Man I can't wait to start shooting this thing! I was a competitive shooter with my over and under but I have since got bored with it so I might get into hand gun shooting competition now!

 

Guy

[JMortensen]

Well, it should be better than my recommendation for getting a second shot off. Hope you enjoy it.

[dr_hunt]

Handgun competition with a .454, that'd be interesting. You might be competing by yourself, as nobody would stand next to you on either side. Wheel guns don't find alot of action unless it's accuracy off hand slow fire at 25,50,75 and 100. I used to shoot IPSC with my .45 which is switchbarrel in .400 corbon as well. I shot bowling pin with my .357 and I won numerous championships with that in slow fire as well, which is 10 shot groups. Other than that your looking at sihlouette shooting which is fun.

 

Cannon is all I can say, damn cannon.

[80LS1T]

Yeah I know I go from wanting not much recoil to lots of recoil. But after talking to a few gun shop owners the general consensus was that a .41, .44, .454, or a .500 was needed/recommend to take deer down with out an issue.

 

No competitions for the big guns huh? Oh well I guess I will just have to compete with my roomate, he also bought a gun tonight! He got a S&W .44 revolver with a 2X scope. We can't wait to get out there and shoot on Sunday!

 

What kind of recoil can I expect? I have shot a 12ga with it straight out from 1 hand(not against the shoulder, would it be something like that? I'm not really scared of the recoil, I just don't know what to expect?

[grumpyvette]

while the 454 cassuls,and raging bull revolvers a nice combo, I think youll very quickly find that you need to handload to get an accurate and EFFECTIVE yet reasonably LOW RECOIL load, and like Ive stated above POWER is no substitute for exact shot placement and a 270-300 grain bullet will prove very quickly to be more that adequate on deer.

 

sure you can zip a 270 grain slug out at 1600 plus, but it won,t be any more effective that a 1200-1300fps load on deer, but the recoil will be far more violent, you may want to use 45 colt ammo

 

here info you need

 

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/deptsearch1x.asp?dept=%52%65%6C%6F%61%64%69%6E%67

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?tabid=1

 

http://www.starlinebrass.com/

 

btw I own a 10" dan wesson 445 super mag, I can easily push 310 grain bullets 1570 fps, I hunt with a 1200 fps load simply because theres been no advantage on deer to the higher speed loads and the recoil is easily double with the faster loads, keep that in mind, a 44 mag could be loaded to similar velocity and is just as effective(one shot in the correct place results in a very dead deer)

[jt1]

Can you really expect a V8Z guy to buy anything besides a boomer? Nah, ain't going to happen.

 

Recoil with full powered 454's is substantial. I've got a FA 83 7 1/2" 454, and it's a handful. Probably your best best is to start off with 45 Colts, cheaper and less recoil. The 454 is just a lengthed 45 Colt, so it will fire the 45's fine. You can step up to hot 45's, like Buffalo Bore, then try the 454's.

 

Best hunting load is a cast or JSP, not JHP, bullet at about 1200 fps. These normally give a bullet exit, which means the deer stops quicker and leaves a better blood trail if you have to track it.

 

Let us know how it goes when you shoot it!

 

John

[dr_hunt]

Yeah, they are all right. If your good at shooting with big recoil, more power to you. However you may find that 1200fps is about right for best accuracy.

 

Good info has been presented.

[jt1]

posted by Dr Hunt

 

 

 

I've killed deer and antelope with the .44 Mag S&W Mod 686 with custom 10.25" barrel, comp, double crane locks, .007 cylinder gap (actually on all wheel guns I shoot that tight of a gap).

 

Doc, do you have a 686 converted to 44? Give up some details on that bad boy! Custom cylinder?

 

John