alsil Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 So I was just thinking about this, and wondering if others have wondered the same thing. What ever happened to the stripped-down models of cars? Why do the new cars have to come with so much crap, and weigh like 3500-4000 lbs? With how reliable new cars are today, with 100k tune-ups, "limp mode", crumple zones, etc, you'd think that they would be able to make a car that was less than 3000 lbs, have 150-200hp, a 5-speed, maunal R+P, decent brakes, guages, no AC, CC, Power locks, windows, etc, and make it less than $15k. Hell I would buy one! Of course I'm not talking about a front-drive econobox wanna be sports-car. I'm talking about a car that is designed to be a sporty car from the beginning. Strip down a G35 to the basic package - engine, trans, brakes, manual everything but brakes, no AC, radio, and I'll take one. Just make sure it's under $20k. Why can't this happen? It doesn't cost that much to make it. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Why can't this happen? It doesn't cost that much to make it. Just a thought. Al, It could happen, but a strippy sports car just doesn't add up with the bean counters at the automakers. I agree: stab in a V8 in a small, two door chassis that has very minimal luxury features and you'll have a relatively cheap, fast car to tune even farther. It all comes down to money and regulations. Given all the gov't crap (read: laws & regs), it doesn't become profitable in the eyes of the car manufacturers. I would LOVE for some company to buck the system and put out a very, basic, very fast, good handling car for the masses. It would warm my heart. Like a RWD Scion with a FI V8. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 The funny thing is, I've been kicking around the idea of getting an NA Z32 coupe. Looks like they can be had on Craig's (usually with lots of miles, mind you) for $3000-4000. These cars are decently quick NA, but with all the miles on it, I'd be a little worried about something going wrong. So to remedy that, I'd grab an LS1 / T56 (or LS2) combo and plug it in. Now I get better gas mileage, very low miles, and reliablity up to 150k +. That could add $4000-5000. Then of course if the car needs brakes / suspension / etc done while I'm doing the swap, but stick with stock parts (which were all damned good anyway) we're talking another $1000-1500. Now of course I'm also assuming that the car was in good condition, the paint was nice, and the interior was pretty clean. Most owners of Z32's are pretty careful with 'em anyways, and I wouldn't even get close to buying one that was thrashed. So my total including the price of the car is max $10,500 and min $8000. So I get a car that is as fast as a new Vette, reliable as a Honda, handles like a world class sports car should, and is comfortable and affordable. Did I just talk myself into building a Z32??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I had a 90 na z32 that had 190k miles when it was stolen lol. If you maintain the vg30de they live forever. They just get interesting little ticks and noises you have to learn how to accept haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 I had a 90 na z32 that had 190k miles when it was stolen lol. If you maintain the vg30de they live forever. They just get interesting little ticks and noises you have to learn how to accept haha. I'd probably just drive the car stock until the motor grenaded anyway. I've heard they are nice motors, last a long time, and have decent power. I drove a '90 NA once and it was a fun ride. Who knows? Of course all that would have to wait for when my wife's done with college! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 A manual so long as you maintain it really will last a long time. At 120k if its manual its still fun as hell to drive lol. Quick too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedWild Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I feel ya on that one. Sad part is GM has all the parts and the platform to offer it. Take the Kappa platform (Solice, Sky), add a rigid roof in fastback form. Offer a turbo ecotec, a supercharged 3.8, and a LS2. Bare minimal interior and comfort creatures, t-56, limited slip independent rear end. If they approached it like Dodge did with the SRT-4 and offer different stages with warranty. Look at automotive history, inexpensive and sporty = massive sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 The way I see it.... No one offers a stripped down/spartan sports car because manufacturers THINK no one wants to buy them... Manufacturers have done exactly the opposite from creating a new small sports car...... They are taking family 4 door vehicles and offering a souped up model(WRX, EVOx)... These cars are often aimed at kids... I would not be caught dead in an EVOx... Nissan does not offer a suitable platform right now... The G35/350Z are built on subframes to insulate the interior from noise and vibrations... Those subframes are one of the first things to get modified in a race car chassis... A really sporty little car would need entirely different design and construction methods... and much smaller dimensions... Another point of contention for sports car makers is the fact that horsepower is a prime motivator for people interested in buying a sports car... Corvettes offer OOMPH!!!! that the Lotus Exige cannot offer... even though the Exige can turn faster laps at most venues... The average 55 year old redneck wants POWER!!! more than handling... A nice little lightweight sports car to hark back to the good old days of the S-30... would need stunning good looks... light weight... and probably a 4 cylinder engine in todays market... I really think that you could sell a spartan sports car in decent numbers if the price was kept as low as possible... My take on this market is... You cannot please everyone... but if someone offers a car for less than $24,000 with few options, stellar performance, and stunning good looks.. It will become an overnight success.... I have owned all kinds of cars... lately I have been looking for another small, fuel sipper, that is fun to drive and good looking... I just can't find many things that fit the bill... I am absolutely SURE that millions of Americans are looking to add a small fuel efficient car to their stable... a runabout that is fun to drive and saves gas... There is a market for a new S-30... I just hope Nissan can see this... The conditions are similar now to what was going on in the early 1970s... BIG cars abound.. people are tired of driving hunge vehicles... Gas prices are rising, small cars are going to gain in popularity and this is the time to introduce a new sports car for the masses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 one of the biggest hurdles to overcome is the thinking that you need at least 300HP to call a car a sports car... like I said above.. Rednecks want power more than handling... The sports car that is the next blockbuster must stay out of the horsepoewr game... a small lightweight car with 200HP will allow good economy and light weight performance... If you want a V-8 then you are going to build another large Pony car... DONT DO IT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 There already is a stripped down car available at a (higher price range). The EVO RS had a sticker of 26K stripped exactly the way you said. It sold like nill. Everyone want the standard model 30K or the MR 37K. I tried to sell the wife on it but she like all the bells and whisltes the drive up the price and profit. Also companies need to keep there hiearchy of vehicle. And most importantly due to CAFE if you make a cheap car that sells A LOT it will use up all the gas credits that they would rather use to sell more lucrative vehicles.--TA-DA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 For the same reason modern econoboxes don't get the super high gas mileage of the same cars back in the70's and 80's: modern safety standards have just made everything too damn heavy. Air bags, crash test, all that crap adds weight. The Solice platform is a perfect example. A small car that is still a heavy pig. Cars have also gotten so expensive with fuel injection computers, air bags, lifetime emissions warranties, that trying to save money by eliminating all the bells and whistles just makes the consumer feel cheated. The base cost of the car is already so high that the buyer is left thinking he paid a ton for not much. The extras don't add much to the total so why not be comfortable? And I absolutely disagree with the notion that inexpensive and sporty = massive sales. Just compare the sales of 240Z's with ZX's. Bigger, heavier, more comfortable, more options = more sales and bigger mark ups (hence profit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 YOU WISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've been waiting for years... how about a 240sx successor, they had the 240 at the same time as the 300 so, why not make a little sister for the 350... YOU WISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But, I will not hold my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 "...one of the biggest hurdles to overcome is the thinking that you need at least 300HP to call a car a sports car... like I said above.. Rednecks want power more than handling." If yer pik-m-up truk kin bern ruber frum El Paisso ta' Dallus... ya' mite be a rednek. Mmm... nuthin' like the smell o' burnt ruber, YEE-HAW!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 240sx was nowhere near a cheap sportscar. technically, it was a pony car, same layout as a mustang/camaro/etc. just a weaker motor. I remember in 01, you could buy base z28 ls1 camaro for 22k out the door. If anything, that fits the category. Dodge had an interesting concept a while back - the razor. It had the 2.4L turbo 4 out of the srt-4, rated at 250 horse, rwd, 6 speed. manual doors, windows, ac optional. This would have been THE perfect sportscar because the plan was to offer base model for 15-16k. Unfortunately, dodge scrapped it. But it would've been a wonderful starting platform. Stripped g35? Isn't that a base 350z without rear seats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 well what do you know, turns out they might rehash the razor concept again! http://jalopnik.com/cars/gossip/sharpening-the-razor-new-dodge-roadster-coming-to-geneva-show-231694.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexideways Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 240sx was nowhere near a cheap sportscar. I didn't say it was cheap but, it was still AHELLUVA lot cheaper than the 300ZXtt. technically, it was a pony car, same layout as a mustang/camaro/etc. just a weaker motor. Can you please explain where you see similarities between the Camaro and 240SX except for both being RWD??? The 240SX has WAY more in common with the Z32 and R32-33-34 skylines than the Camaro or Mustang. Same basic structure, brakes, suspension... Hell, I thought that to qualify as a PONY car, you needed solid axle and V8!?! P.S.: I'm not trying to pick up a fight here, just debating;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedWild Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 And I absolutely disagree with the notion that inexpensive and sporty = massive sales. Just compare the sales of 240Z's with ZX's. Bigger, heavier, more comfortable, more options = more sales and bigger mark ups (hence profit). Thats why Hondas are so popular to tune. Look at the sales of first gen MR2's compared to the later year 2nd gens. Manufactures start off right and then "upgrade and improve" them right out the intended price range. I'm afraid that the days of lightweight RWD inexspensive sport cars are over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Yeah... Except the custom kits. Hopefully, Uncle Sam won't regulate these and ruin them too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 the 300zx tt, rx7tt, supra tt were the japanese supercars, selling for 40k+ 240sx was a cheaper alternative, and it sold for about 23-27k new. technical description of a sportscar is lightweight, roadster, 2 seater, rwd. Cars that fit that description to a tee are: -bmw z3 -mazda miata -mg roadster -etc the layout of the 240sx (2+2) made it more of a sport coupe/pony car than a sportscar. Technicality, maybe perhaps I worded it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 one of the biggest hurdles to overcome is the thinking that you need at least 300HP to call a car a sports car... like I said above.. Rednecks want power more than handling... oh well, I've been called worse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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