Guest 280ZForce Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I've seen pictures and it will definitely be a cool surprise!!!! Jason did an awesome job! lol, yeah i got it today in the mail. Looks awesome, I knew Jason would do an awesome job. i was actually on the phone w/ Jason a few hours ago and he told me you can across some pics and he didn't realize you were on the same forum. so shhhhhh, keep a secret for the time being please. But yeah, it's 1 BAMF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY77Z Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 guys, please stop it....... i finshed my ford swap on my 280Z about a month ago, now and after reading this thread, i'm thinking about building a N/A L28 240Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Dude, I totally know what you're saying. All the great/cool/retro/rediculous ideas here are making my head spin and my project jump back and forth. Right now, I have plans set for 3 cars all using inline 6's. I have one left and I'm still leaning towards an SBC... but we'll see. You guys rock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003z Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 lol, yeah i got it today in the mail. Looks awesome, I knew Jason would do an awesome job. i was actually on the phone w/ Jason a few hours ago and he told me you can across some pics and he didn't realize you were on the same forum. so shhhhhh, keep a secret for the time being please. But yeah, it's 1 BAMF! so when are you going to share it with everyone????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 so when are you going to share it with everyone????? soon, soon my friend. I was gonna wait till i had the engine back together later this week, but I think I'll make a thread just for my parts maybe sometime tonight. I'm actually putting in my spare block and head to do some test fitting on the new manifolds and everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxman69 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 have a look at these. I have an adaptor for the su manifold to use the boddies in the top photo, I'll try to find the pic of it and post later today . If your interested you can call me at 954-817-1081 Neil I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 Ok here's the latest changes. I added webbing with an integral balance/vacuum tube. The two manifolds will be connected with stainless braid hose. I straightened out the linkages. I added bosses on the bottom for a heat shield. I did away with my construction flange and added the final intake flange. You can't see this but I curved the portion just behind the butterflies on #1 and #6 internally to allow for a smoother transition into the port. I ordered a set of stock injector hold downs and as soon as they arrive I can model the injector bosses. I made the vacuum port 1/2†diameter. Any opinions if this will be large enough for power brakes and an idle valve? At this point I plan to drive the linkages from the #6 butterfly. Anyone see any problems with that? I'm going to start making the models into patterns working out the core and parting line issues. I also need to add any first grab flanges for the machining process. I'll post some pics of these as well. Thanks again Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 ahh.. I am unsure of whether to even bother posting, I may be opening my mouth just to insert my foot.... ...but wouldn't putting the throttle linkage between #3 and #4 balance the load, and ensure that any potential future wear or difference between the butterflies would be more evenly distributed? I would hate to see you have any flex in your throttle shaft that might cause the #1 cylinder to be richer or leaner than your #6, you know? I mean, theoretically, I am right.. but in practice I have NO idea if you would ACTUALLY see the potential issue I mention... just thought I would bring it up, since you asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 ahh.. I am unsure of whether to even bother posting, I may be opening my mouth just to insert my foot.... ...but wouldn't putting the throttle linkage between #3 and #4 balance the load, and ensure that any potential future wear or difference between the butterflies would be more evenly distributed? I would hate to see you have any flex in your throttle shaft that might cause the #1 cylinder to be richer or leaner than your #6, you know? I mean, theoretically, I am right.. but in practice I have NO idea if you would ACTUALLY see the potential issue I mention... just thought I would bring it up, since you asked. For all practical purposes I agree with you. The complexity of the center linkage is what's pushing me towards driving from the #6 throttle body. For the butterflies I'm using 1/4†stainless shafts mounted between sealed bearings top and bottom. I'm using spherical rod ends for the linkage so there shouldn't be much flex there. I think I'll probably go with this design and put a couple dial indicators on the #1 and #6 shaft arms and check the flex. If there is a noticeable amount then I'll design a system to drive it from the center. Thanks Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Cool, sounds like you are on top of things.. unless anyone else has something to say. I had to throw it out there; I couldnt remember who it was that said that recently and I didnt want to re read the whole thread to see if you had mentioned the concept already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurate Injection Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Guys: Take 2 years of R&D to Heart they have to be seperate so each one can be adjusted, no 2 cylinders are going to pull the same amount of air! You can still go the route your taking if you incorporate Air Bleeds to bypass the plates and this gives a finite adjustment needed! By incorporating a Vacuum control valve from "Clippard $8 to $10 each" with a Brass Filter on the intake side and positioned down Stream of the Throttle Plates you can achieve the balance you need! The Tell-Tale sign is what we call "Spitting", where 1 cylinder is leaner than the rest! You have only .002" total tolerance on the Blade to Bore as well! Yes I like Tinkers! Hope this helps! Kevin Extrudabody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurate Injection Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Quote "I made the vacuum port 1/2†diameter. Any opinions if this will be large enough for power brakes and an idle valve?" 1/2" is Plenty for the Brake booster, but the Each Cylinder has to be fed with Equal length Tubes from the IAC Valve itself, if not you will have the closest cylinder to the IAC Valve pulling the most Idle Air and once again another Balance Issue! Another thing you may want to consider is the BellMouth to AirHorn ID Ratio! Most consider it overkill if this is over 1.5 to 1 so a 45mm ITB would only need a 67.5mm Bell mouth! Also the angle at which the ITB Runner hits the Head port! If it can not be straight at least they all need to be the Same Angle, one can't be straight and 1 be angled without having cylinder to cylinder flow issues! Kevin Extrudabody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 1/2" is Plenty for the Brake booster, but the Each Cylinder has to be fed with Equal length Tubes from the IAC Valve itself, if not you will have the closest cylinder to the IAC Valve pulling the most Idle Air and once again another Balance Issue! Oh you smart guys that actually want their stuff to perform. Don't you know it's supposed to look cool. I think what I'll do is hook it up with a “T†fitting in between the two manifolds. And feed it in there. I'll also add a boss to the underside of each throttle body in case I have to go with individual tubes. Another thing you may want to consider is the BellMouth to AirHorn ID Ratio! Most consider it overkill if this is over 1.5 to 1 so a 45mm ITB would only need a 67.5mm Bell mouth!Yes but look at how cool they look!!! (Don't laugh. You'd be a little rough around the edges If you were under a tarp for the last ten years!) The large (some might even say cartoonie looking!) bells are going to double as an air cleaner housing. Also the angle at which the ITB Runner hits the Head port! If it can not be straight at least they all need to be the Same Angle, one can't be straight and 1 be angled without having cylinder to cylinder flow issues! Kevin Extrudabody Internally the #1 and #6 tubes have a slight curve between the butterfly and the port to help even them out. The air valves for air bleeds sounds like a great way to go. Do you have a part number handy for the style your using. Thanks for all your suggestions on this I may sound a little flip but I'm definitely listening!!!! Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurate Injection Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Hahaha! Well No Flipping intended here, just trying to help! Just do a Search for Clippard Vacuum control Valve and use the 10/32" size as they have the largest port for a small valve, do not want them to look like Poo! They will only add about 200 to 300 Rpm to your idle so you will have to synchro the Blades too! I have a Set of 45mm Throttle Blades we Picked up from a supplier that we never intend to use, if you want them cover our cost and shipping and they are yours! Send me a Private Message and we can chat! Kevin Extrudabody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Hahaha! Well No Flipping intended here, just trying to help! Just do a Search for Clippard Vacuum control Valve and use the 10/32" size as they have the largest port for a small valve, do not want them to look like Poo! They will only add about 200 to 300 Rpm to your idle so you will have to synchro the Blades too! Kevin Extrudabody As far as the air bleed valves go can I put one end of the valve in the bottom of the throttle body in front of the butterfly and run a tube to a fitting behind the butterfly? Or do I need to bleed in air from outside the system. Thanks Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurate Injection Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Sure By All Means as long as it is filtered Air! Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I just learned more in 5min than I have in a Long time about ITBs. and I'm really glad because its helping me out a TON with the design of my own system. I have been looking for info about the vacuum system but never really found anything, Not so anymore! My problem is that you guys are talking about N/A engines and I intend to turbo mine, so if you have a sec, I'd love to hear any info you might have on that. The TBs that I have are 48mm units that I happen to have lying around, I am also having issues with the linkage, but after reading more of this thread I have a couple ideas to tinker with. EDIT - I stayed up way too late working on this. I need to do some mocking up before I go much further but this is the basic design. Obviously the 1 and 6 runners are no where near optimal however the other four are pretty close. I am going to play around with the design more before I set anything in stone. Any suggestions would be much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrodpez Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 A design i drew up a few years ago was for a single TB and turbo with a log-style intake manifold, and individual injectors on the intake runners. The "log" would be a tapered square airbox with bells on the ends of the intake runners inside the box, and a large (3" or so) throttle body at one end. The idea was that since the whole system would be under pressure, there was no need to have smoothed and raidused tube between the TB and the injectors. However, would the "log" airbox cause inconsistant throttle response because of turbulence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Here is version 2 that I have been tinkering with. I basically turned the TBs 90* to get them closer together. In this layout with the TB flange 6" from the head, all six runners are at 10* off from straight. Which should give me Much better flow over my last design. I'll do some mockup this weekend and try to get some of the details set so I can make more detailed drawings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Now that I have a design that I like I'm starting the casting process. I've started a new link here: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=763007#post763007 Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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