Cheep and easy brakes 2

[Guest Simon]

I don’t know where to start with my brakes, I cant stop, my breaks are stock and worn out. I was thinking of replacing them, so that I have more breaking power.

 

I will be doing up then engine soon looking at about 300-350 HP

 

I have been told I need 4 wheel disk brakes

 

Any suggestions?

 

Any information will be helpful

Thanks

[Guest scca]

there may be some conversions there in AU that we dont know of...

 

easiest rear is the 240sx conversion with Z31 rotors- its a easy bolton with a torch to cut the backing plate

 

fronts: cheap is the toyota 4runner caliper but its heavy and use a spacer and Z31 front rotor, all this you can get local and make your own spacer

[Tim240z]

I've also found that the Jag XJ6 (mid 80s) front caliper bolts right up to the Z. Using the 300ZX front rotor this is a complete bolt up conversion, but the rotors aren't a large enough diameter to fully take advantage of the full pad contact surface.

I am currently looking into other rotors and will hopefully have a solution soon. Also, I have NOT run this configuration yet, so it is an untested conversion, but the 4 piston Jag calipers look like they will do a good job.

Tim

[zcarnut]

Also look at machining the '85-'89 Maxima front rotor to fit the Z/ZX front hub. (With the Toyota caliper, of course.) Much cheaper than making a spacer to use the Z31 rotors.

 

I've done several of these conversions with no problems.

[katman]

A bone stock system in OEM condition will stop you at the limit of adhesion of your tires at least one time from top speed. However, it may be very difficult to modulate at the limit with both feet on the pedal and the pads may catch on fire by the time you've stopped.

 

A stock system upgraded with pads, ducts, and an adjustable proportioning valve will stop you repeatedly at the limit of adhesion of any DOT approved tire currently in existence and be easy to modulate.

 

Converting to rear disk will eliminate the need to adjust the drum shoes. Converting to a bigger front caliper and a vented rotor will increase pad life, reduce or eliminate the need for ducts on track days, allow for cheaper pads, and may be easier to modulate. Any conversion like this would require replacement of the stock proportioning valve with an adjustable one to maximize front/rear efficiency and hence braking performance. It is entirely possible that just changing the fronts to a bigger caliper like the popular Toyo swap could actually reduce your braking performance because of the change in bias front to rear.

 

There is a lot to be said for upgrading to a more modern system (big calipers, rear disks, vented rotors etc.), but stopping quicker isn't necessarily one of them.

[Tim240z]

There is a lot to be said for upgrading to a more modern system (big calipers, rear disks, vented rotors etc.), but stopping quicker isn't necessarily one of them.

On the other hand, a big 4 pot caliper and fat a$$ vented rotor just looks plain COOL!

Tim

[Guest Simon]

I can only do about 3-4 laps before my brakes heat up and start to fail when the silvas and skylines can do 5-6

 

I want a upgrade so that I can do keep up with the skylines

[Trevor]

"Also look at machining the '85-'89 Maxima front rotor to fit the Z/ZX front hub. "

 

What kind of machining is required on the Maxima rotor? (Thats a FWD car right?) ... and is the rotor larger than the stock 240Z?

[Guest scca]

the maxima one is a waste of time, same as a 300 rotor and EVERY time you need to replace rotors you must turn them and drill them again.. i ;used to use them but the long term cost is higher than making spacers

[zcarnut]

> What kind of machining is required on the

> Maxima rotor? (Thats a FWD car right?) ... and

> is the rotor larger than the stock 240Z?

 

It requires increasing the size of the large center hole in the Maxima rotor to 81.0mm and then drilling four holes (sometimes only two, dending on the brand of rotor) on a 103.0mm diameter base circle to allow you to bolt it up to the Z hub.

 

My machinist only charges me $20 a rotor for the mod. Remember the title of this thread is "cheap and easy brakes". I agree if you need to replace the rotor you must re-do the machining part, but I have seen lots of cars with well over 100K miles on a set of rotors.

 

BTW, the '85-'88 Maxima rotor is 274mm in diameter and is 22mm thick (same specs as the Z31 rotor). The 240Z disc is 271 or 272mm, depending on whose catalog you are using.

[Guest RON JONES]

I did the Toyota 4runner,Z31 rotor,spacer(Mike scca) convesion and can tell You that it works fine.Its a good upgrade.

[Guest Anonymous]

Get the pre 1985 Toyota 4x4 front calipers that bolt right up with slight trimming to the Z brake dust shield and use the stock discs. A cheap Rear disc conversion may not give you anymore stopping power than the stock drums. The early 4x4 front calipers may not have the stopping power of the later Toyota 4x4 caliper brakes but you may get them cheap

[Guest scca]

key word "upgrade"

IMO the NON-vented toyota calipers on a stock Z rotor is NOT a upgrade but thats just my opinion!

 

well functioning Z brakes will work as well as the toyota (nonvented) and weigh far less . not sure why anyone would do that as a upgrade?

 

"cheap" use ZX calieprs and rotors and drill the holes to mount that single piston caliper - at least its vented and its a real upgrade and CHEAP

[fl327]

all i have to say is that when i ran with a fully rebuilt stock system it still sucked, it could not stop for crap, ASK AUXILARY

i now run the bolt on 4x4 brakes and green shoes in the back, and it will lock up, the fronts slightly before the rears do, and it stops well consistently, not sure how it will hold up at the track but for street driving i have found they stop GRRRRRREAT!

and they are about the same as getting a new set of stock calipers.

but there are bigger and better brakes, open up your wallet.

[brokebolt]

First time here, very concerned on the brake upgrade issue. Are the front 70-78 Z rotors not actually a problem of not disapatting heat but that the pads don't preform at temperature. I've seen road race cars rotors glow red at dust and evening. For the daily driver the pads would not get hot enough to perform normally but for the track they would be fine. Are their any aftermarket pads that would be an 'upgrade' over the standard 'Napa' replacements? Pads at $50.00 has to be cheaper than new parts.

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

"Are the front 70-78 Z rotors not actually a problem "

 

Glad to have you BROKBOLT, welcome.

 

The rotors ARE a problem in that they they're non-vented so their rate of heat dissipation is slower and their simple overall metal mass is too low to absorb the large amounts of heat generated in our more spirited driving. Better pads that don't burn up like OEM organics can help to an extent as they still operate at higher temps, most metallics are quite aggresive on rotors IME, the KVR's aren't agressive at all and are great for street/light track.

 

Firstly a rotor has to have enough mass to absorb the heat generated during your maximum braking/closing zones (ie. 100mph to zero street, or 140mph to 60mph track (just examples!)) WITHOUT rising to a temperature in excess of the operating range of the pads you're using. Secondly it then has to be able to dissipate enough heat after the above stop such that it can then reabsorb the heat generated in your next stop without exceeding operating limits of associated components.

 

Typically a street setup is only intended for a few hard stops, nothing very repetitive closely spaced and the 'average' rotor temp would be quite low as 95% of the time you're cruising.

 

Track setups (not 1320, road racing/lapping etc) are quite different in that your average rotor temperature may be 4-500 degrees for ie. and you're using brakes for 20% (just arbitrary examples to aid the explanation) of the time driven if not more. To be very functional this setup has to be able to both absorb large amounts of heat and dissipate heat quite effectively.

 

For cheap basics, one is best off by regularly flushing their brake fluid (annually at least, Ford HD fluid is great and cheap), this helps keep calipers clean inside and functioning smoothly, and run rotor friendly respectable pads as they don't groove your rotors and induce warping as many others do. I'm continuously amazed that some folks will buy the cheapest pads for their brakes. The difference can be 20 or more feet or a complete fade altogether in your braking distance which can be life or death depending on what you're trying to avoid at those rates of deceleration. I'll hop of my soap box now. The real kicker is how cheap the good street pads are for what you get IMO.

[brokebolt]

Thanks for the tongue lashing, the information was exceptional! If only more post were as informative. So... stacking up the corners with disks is the best upgrade but the debate of cheap upgrade is still the issue. I've heard of available bone yard parts being used for that up grade, anyone care to share. Seriously, thanks again for the info. Mike

[260DET]

For the fronts, check out the VT Commodore rotors, around 296mm dia X 28mm thick. They should fit in most 15 inch wheels. Search RB30-ZED, pretty sure that he has used them with Commodore calipers, although some 4 spots may be better.

 

For the rears, the solid Z31 (300ZX) rotors slide straight on, there are Nissan calipers (late Bluebird?) that will suit. Vented rotors would be better but getting suitable calipers with a handbrake mechanism is the problem. If you find any, let me know.

 

For the above, you will have to get caliper adaptors made up ie so they can be bolted on.

[Guest Anonymous]

I have the stock set up on my 78 280Z. When properly adjusted it preforms exceptionally well on the track for 1 to 2 laps. Then no brakes. Pads did burn. When I pulled them ti was metal with no pad only backing plate.

 

If good pads are the answer... Where do I get them? And where do I find a vented rotor to fit the stock set up?

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

" When I pulled them it was metal with no pad only backing plate. "

 

Cash, we know pads alone won't give your monZter the brakes it needs

 

The KVR's and R4S's are among some fine street/autox pads IMO but do NOT compensate for modified Z's expecting to reliably close large speed differentials in short order repeatedly with OEM rotors, temperature climbs outside operational zones of the pads.