ARP studs or not

[palauoriginal]

hi im starting to gather parts for an engine rebuild/refreshment.

i was just going to get new gaskets, bearings, new timing chain, hone the block, jet washed...etc.

 

i was wondering if ARP studs were necessary for my rebuild/ refreshment.

if i can just use the stock bolts, that would be nice on my wallet.

 

btw this engine might see boost later on.

 

im just looking for opinions, suggestions, comments.

this will be my first work on the internals of an engine.

[Guest TeamNissan]

You don't need studs for a stock block but you DO need to buy new bolts no reuse old ones. Head studs stretch when they are tq'd so you are SUPPOSED to use new ones every time. Studs save you that trouble and are stronger but like I said for a basic rebuild they are overkill.

[palauoriginal]

does this go for just the head bolts?

or should the connecting rod and main bolts be changed as well?

 

oh and is the timing chain necessary?

[Guest TeamNissan]

I would say the rest is fine. Head bolts are the longest and are tq'd the highest. Yes, you should always change the timing chain.

[randy 77zt]

make sure and run a tap through head bolt holes and clean with brake cleaner and compressed air.the head wont torque even with out good prep.you can get arp head studs from summit-probably not much more tham a set of oem bolts.when you are torqueing down the oem bolts they seem kind of spongy.if you try to use old bolts they break where there are rust pits on the unthreaded shaft of the bolt.

[palauoriginal]

so my price list now is about $449 and some change for the rebuild...plus the machine shop work( dont know how much that costs)

 

does that sound about right?

[z-ya]

I've reused head, main and rod bolts on many builds without any problems. Chase the head bolt threads, and oil the threads before inserting them. If you want to replace them, use Nissan bolts. ARP studs and bolts are overkill unless you are building a big HP turbo motor. Use Nissan bearings and a high quality gasket set.

[JMortensen]

I've reused head, main and rod bolts on many builds without any problems. Chase the head bolt threads, and oil the threads before inserting them. If you want to replace them, use Nissan bolts. ARP studs and bolts are overkill unless you are building a big HP turbo motor. Use Nissan bearings and a high quality gasket set.

Yep. I've got used headbolts and mains on my current engine. No problemo.

[z-ya]

so my price list now is about $449 and some change for the rebuild...plus the machine shop work( dont know how much that costs)

 

does that sound about right?

 

The last build I did the machining cost $1250, but this is first time I've used him, and he kind of nickel and dimed me on the cleaning. The machinist I usually use, charged me like $100 to clean everything.This new guy charged me separate for the block, rods, crank, head, and misc parts. The total for cleaning was like $300.

 

- Hot tank block, head, oil pan, and misc parts

- Magnaflux block, crank, and rods

- Check and resize rods

- Check and polish crank

- Remove old and install new pistons on rods

- Check deck flatness and resurface

- Bore 0.020" over

- Check and resurface head

- 3 angle valve job

- Check springs, guides, valves, etc.

 

The machining work was excellent. It is runnings, and I'm measuring 200psi on all cylinder hot, so all looks good. I'll have it on the dyno next week and will post results then.

[BRAAP]

You don't need studs for a stock block but you DO need to buy new bolts no reuse old ones. Head studs stretch when they are tq'd so you are SUPPOSED to use new ones every time. Studs save you that trouble and are stronger but like I said for a basic rebuild they are overkill.

 

We need to be more specific here and not just blanket statement that head bolts should be replaced every time as that is not the case here with the L-series.

 

In the case of the Datsun/Nissan L-series, it is completely and totally acceptable to reuse the head bolts, main bolts, rod bolts etc. They are not a “torque to yield” bolt. “Torque to yield” fasteners should never be reused because if they were installed properly, then those fasteners were torqued to their yield point, hence the name, “torque to yield” i.e. the bolt is stretched to the point that it is now “sprung” and if tension is ever released, they are no longer reusable. Some manufactures used torque to yield fasteners on various engines, but not the L-series.

 

For the record, YES, you can reuse ALL the Datsun/Nissan L-series head bolts, rod bolts, and main bolts. For mild to moderate N/A applications, the stock head, rod and main bolts are fine. If the compression ratio is such that it requires race fuel, you are running race cam, boost, etc, then I strongly recommend that you step up to the ARP head studs. If the engine is going to be spun at 7000+ RPMs often, then I would recommend the ARP rod bolts. If you are planning to run more than 12+ lbs of boost, then I’d also recommend ARP main studs.

[Daeron]

We need to be more specific here and not just blanket statement that head bolts should be replaced every time as that is not the case here with the L-series.

Yes, we do.. this is what I have always been taught by my dad and uncle, and I am VERY GLAD to hear you say this Braap.

 

In the case of the Datsun/Nissan L-series, it is completely and totally acceptable to reuse the head bolts, main bolts, rod bolts etc.

......

For the record, YES, you can reuse ALL the Datsun/Nissan L-series head bolts, rod bolts, and main bolts.

.......

If the engine is going to be spun at 7000+ RPMs often, then I would recommend the ARP rod bolts. If you are planning to run more than 12+ lbs of boost, then I’d also recommend ARP main studs.

 

Question: What would the potential consequences of re using these bolts on an engine of too much power? mains and rods could possible destroy a crankshaft, piston rods, block, ?pistons??? head bolts.. most likely a blown headgasket, right? possibly with accompanying overheating and warpage, yes, but mostly just a headgasket? Am I right, more or less right, off base? Just trying to glean a little more out of your wisdom hoard, thanks.

[Doug71zt]

A cheap way of beefing up the mains is to use LD28 main cap bolts, they are higher strength and are torqued to 60 ftlbs. They are cheap from Nissan like $25.

 

Doug

[OlderThanMe]

Use Nissan bearings and a high quality gasket set.

This is what I was going to do for putting new bearings in the L26 while I build my turbo motor. I went down to the Nissan dealership and they said the bearings were $400 for mains and rods! Is that the standard price for Nissan bearings or was the parts guy trying to rip me off? It was $75 for sealed power bearings for rods and mains which I ended up going with and then the fel-pro gasket kit was $75.

It will get me by I guess.

[BRAAP]

Yes, we do.. this is what I have always been taught by my dad and uncle, and I am VERY GLAD to hear you say this Braap.

 

 

 

Question: What would the potential consequences of re using these bolts on an engine of too much power? mains and rods could possible destroy a crankshaft, piston rods, block, ?pistons??? head bolts.. most likely a blown headgasket, right? possibly with accompanying overheating and warpage, yes, but mostly just a headgasket? Am I right, more or less right, off base? Just trying to glean a little more out of your wisdom hoard, thanks.

 

 

In the case of rod bolts, if you spin the engine too high for too long, the bolts could let go/relax, leaving you with a nicely ventilated block, trashed crank, etc.

 

With main bolts, if cylinder pressures get high enough, (the mega boosted 500+ HP Turbo applications) the pressure could overcome the main bolts tension allowing the mains to open up, or worst case, spit the crank out the bottom, though usually doesn't happen that way, as 1 or 2 mains will get wiped out first, sometimes with a broken crank.

 

As for head bolts, again, if cylinder pressures are high enough, (mega boost), the head will literally lift off the block blowing the head gasket out. We've seen it posted here many times with pictures of such damge, though usually the result of detonation, (unaudible as the owner never heard it), that lifted the head and blew the gasket, even with head studs!

[z-ya]

This is what I was going to do for putting new bearings in the L26 while I build my turbo motor. I went down to the Nissan dealership and they said the bearings were $400 for mains and rods! Is that the standard price for Nissan bearings or was the parts guy trying to rip me off? It was $75 for sealed power bearings for rods and mains which I ended up going with and then the fel-pro gasket kit was $75.

It will get me by I guess.

 

 

Next time try Courtesy Nissan. The last set of Nissan main bearings cost me around $80. Rod bearings were around $59. Sealed power makes good products. You should be fine with them.

 

Just make sure everything is CLEAN when you assemble your engine. Make sure there is no grit anywhere, especially in the bearing seat, or on the journals. Then use clean motor oil to lube the bearings (journal side), and journals.

[jgkurz]

A cheap way of beefing up the mains is to use LD28 main cap bolts, they are higher strength and are torqued to 60 ftlbs. They are cheap from Nissan like $25.

 

Doug

 

Cool Doug. Yet another trick I didn't know about. I assume you've done this successfully to your L28?

[OlderThanMe]

Next time try Courtesy Nissan. The last set of Nissan main bearings cost me around $80. Rod bearings were around $59. Sealed power makes good products. You should be fine with them.

 

Just make sure everything is CLEAN when you assemble your engine. Make sure there is no grit anywhere, especially in the bearing seat, or on the journals. Then use clean motor oil to lube the bearings (journal side), and journals.

 

Thanks! I'll use courtesy next time. The motor has been together for about 3 weeks now and running fine. I really should have done new rings but I ran out of money for this motor so it should be fine.

The motor was as clean as it could possibly be for being assembled in my open garage. My next motor will be built in a white clean closet that I'm going to build just for motor assembly.

[z-ya]

Thanks! I'll use courtesy next time. The motor has been together for about 3 weeks now and running fine. I really should have done new rings but I ran out of money for this motor so it should be fine.

The motor was as clean as it could possibly be for being assembled in my open garage. My next motor will be built in a white clean closet that I'm going to build just for motor assembly.

 

You don't need to go to that extent. A clean workbench covered with fresh newspaper. Plenty of paper towels. Clean and dry compressed air.

 

Patience, take your time!

[Tony D]

It was my understanding that the rod bolts in the L-Series were Torque To Yield. In fact, now going and digging up the "How To Modify" booklet, they are advocating NOT torquing them, but torquing them using a rod bolt stratch gauge, and not reusing them.

 

I believe the stock torque was at the fringes of TTY, and that for racing they 'did it right' in order to maximize the clamping force at the expense of not being able to re-use the rod bolts (which are cheap anyway). This is probably part of the impetus behind the Chevy Rod Bolt Modification.

 

My case, I chuck the stock rod bolts, and put in the ARP's...they are cheap insurance, and then I don't have to worry about them letting go.

 

The Studs are more convienient for racing engines that are refreshed more often. And by sinking the threads of the stud in the block you prevent the kind of repetitive deformation of the cast threads that causes them to weaken and fail later on. With a stud, you stick it in there, and the NUT is the deformable portion---at most you replace some nuts, maybe the errant stud or two...but the fragile cast threads in the block get properly stressed, lock down on the stud, and stay that way. More consistent pull-down.

 

But overkill for the street on non-turbo engines IMO.

[Tony D]

You don't need to go to that extent. A clean workbench covered with fresh newspaper. Plenty of paper towels. Clean and dry compressed air.

 

Patience, take your time!

 

So let me get this straight, this is Z-Ya's proposal to get you out of the closet? How romantic!

 

Snarfk!