cygnusx1 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I corrected my msq file to reflect your IAC. I had turned it off because you didnt list it when I tweaked your msq. So re-download my my msq from above and replace the one from yesterday...if you are using it. You really need to sort the spark and timing before you think about getting the engine to idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Have a propane torch on hand. When it 'floods' pull your plugs, and heat the ends till the ground strap is glowing red hot, and you don't see any orange flames coming off the end of the plug signifying wet fuel on the tip burning off. Do all six plugs, and I usually give a shot down the open hole to light off any excess fuel in the cylinders as well---it can go 'poof' with some force doing it like that...but the cylinders need to be dry. Usually with the "hot plugs" it aids in starting when really rich. Remember if you are WOT, you are flood clear till it fires and goes above cranking rpm---then you get FULL FUEL for the bin in question because likely you have 9X+ MAP signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I know it's not the same system but when I had a similar problem it turned out to be a bad ground. The way I found t was to pull the fuel rail complete with injectors. I turned the ignition switch to "ON" to see waht would happen. I got nothing which is what I should have. But when I cranked the engine I got a full stream of fuel from every injector! When I described what was happening to Electromotive they told me to go over all of my sensor grounds. I figured it was easiest to just rewire all of the grounds. Once I did that the car started and idled fine. If for nothing else I would check what is happening with the injectors when cranking with the throttle closed. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Timing is stock and spark is only missing on number 1. I'll fix the issue with number 1 when i get home. I imagine the plug wire got pinched and shorted or something. Thanks for the MSQ, I'll give it shot when I get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 I'll have to keep my torch on hand, thanks for the tip Tony D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 I know it's not the same system but when I had a similar problem it turned out to be a bad ground. The way I found t was to pull the fuel rail complete with injectors. I turned the ignition switch to "ON" to see waht would happen. I got nothing which is what I should have. But when I cranked the engine I got a full stream of fuel from every injector! When I described what was happening to Electromotive they told me to go over all of my sensor grounds. I figured it was easiest to just rewire all of the grounds. Once I did that the car started and idled fine. If for nothing else I would check what is happening with the injectors when cranking with the throttle closed. Joe rags - All of my grounds are new wires. I completely pulled my stock EFI harness and rewired everything from the ground (no pun intended) up. All my connections are soldered so I should have clean connection everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 As did I. That's why it took me over a week to figure it out because "It couldn't possibly be a grounding issue". Good luck man. Be sure to let us know what you find. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 I think my problems are the way the board is setup. I'm talking to Matt through email about it now. I'm trying to trigger off the module when I've set my board up to trigger from the VR sensor and fire the coil directly. Looks like I'll be going full on fire from the start. Can someone explain to me why everyone seems to be running 25+ degrees of timing? The book calls for 8 degrees BTDC on a stock engine. Is there some sort of difference between the stock system and MS running timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Actually the turbo cars run an 23-25 btdc at idle which is factory spec. Check the factory manual for the N/A spec. There is a different spec with the vacuum connected and disconnected on the models with vacuum advance. MS is not running your timing so just set it by the book and make sure MS-II is getting a timing signal. Matt will get it right for you. He is the pro. But I did look at your msq file and I made a few changes last night to help you get running. However, I am not sure how to setup your ignition settings because I am not familiar with your ignition system. Also you are only trying to get a timing signal to MS-II so that it knows your RPMs. It should be as simple as building the MS-II correctly and connecting one wire to the right place. If you are now going to control SPARK and FUEL with the MS-II, the msq I tweaked for you will need to be RE-TWEAKED. Let me know and I will give you a timing map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Have a propane torch on hand. When it 'floods' pull your plugs, and heat the ends till the ground strap is glowing red hot, and you don't see any orange flames coming off the end of the plug signifying wet fuel on the tip burning off. Do all six plugs, and I usually give a shot down the open hole to light off any excess fuel in the cylinders as well---it can go 'poof' with some force doing it like that...but the cylinders need to be dry. Usually with the "hot plugs" it aids in starting when really rich. Remember if you are WOT, you are flood clear till it fires and goes above cranking rpm---then you get FULL FUEL for the bin in question because likely you have 9X+ MAP signal. LOL in the winter with my Alfa Romeo, SPICA fuel injection, I used to have to pull the plugs at night and warm them in the oven with breakfast so I could start the car in the morning. LOL The good old days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accurate Injection Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 The RPM Spikes are causing your Problem! The ECU is feed Fuel for the RPM it sees. If you feed RPM signal from the Negative side of the Coil it could be Noise being generated into the ECU RPM circuit! I have seen this first hand! It should show up on a Log File! Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 The RPM Spikes are causing your Problem! The ECU is feed Fuel for the RPM it sees. If you feed RPM signal from the Negative side of the Coil it could be Noise being generated into the ECU RPM circuit! I have seen this first hand! It should show up on a Log File! Kevin You got it. The noise is causing huge jumps in idle for the first few cranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 That's my problem. I set my board up to trigger from the VR sensor and I'm trying to trigger from the module. I'm all screwed up. I have to switch to my locked dist and let MS control the ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Actually the turbo cars run an 23-25 btdc at idle which is factory spec. Check the factory manual for the N/A spec. There is a different spec with the vacuum connected and disconnected on the models with vacuum advance. According to the book the non-turbo model should be 8+/-2 degrees BTDC with vacuum disconnected and the turbo should be 20+/-3 degrees BTDC. So I guess I should be safe to go with 8 degrees to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 According to the book the non-turbo model should be 8+/-2 degrees BTDC with vacuum disconnected and the turbo should be 20+/-3 degrees BTDC. So I guess I should be safe to go with 8 degrees to start with. The 83 turbo spec'd even more advance than that. You will be better off controlling ignition timing with the MS-II. Much more tunability. Nice HP gains comes from good timing curves so this is good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Here we go. I have one distributor locked out already so I think I'm going to give it a run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Ok, I'm on the locked VR distributor. I had to switch my signal wires, the green wire is the positive and the red is the negative incase anyone is wondering. My battery is still too dead to crank though. It's so low MS restarts. I think it's time to get another. MORE TO COME!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Ok dont forget to fill out your timing map and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ok this is so weird. I was getting RPM signal and then my battery died completely. Now the battery has charged back up and I'm not getting any RPM and the injector LED comes on full tilt. When it's on the stim however it doesn't??? Just flashes like normal. I'm confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 I'm baffled. I went through my harness completely and I can't find any shorts to ground or anything. When it's on the stim everything acts perfectly normal. When it's in the car, I turn the key, the pump kicks on for 4 seconds, after 2 seconds the injector LED comes on full and doesn't turn off at all. No RPM signal, nothing. When I reload the firmware before loading any settings though it doesn't do that. I keep thinking this is a software issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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