Okay, I Have A BIG Problem Guys...

[tommyboy]

I've been having my engine rebult for the last few months. Well, my machine shop guy finally finished it but I needed my flywhell done also so he did that too. Well, I didn't ask him too, but he put my flywheel on the engine without first putting the tranny cover on. Well, I think he used the old (slightly rusty) bolts because I've been trying to remove them but they just won't come off. I mean, I've even tried a 180 ft. lbs. of torque impact wrench and that didn't budge 'em. So after all that, my question is...WHAT CAN I DO?! :cry::cry:

[Omar]

heat up the metal around the bolts as u try to remove them. or try to take them out with a breaker bar and hammer the top where the socket is conneceted.

[tommyboy]

I haven't tried heating them yet but I did try to use a breaker bar and hammer them. No dice with that one...

[sweetleaf]

You need a better impact, or just a BFH lol

[vg30turbo240]

slip a length of tubing onto the end of a breaker bar.

 

leverage is your friend.

[Dragonfly]

I think he used the old (slightly rusty) bolts because I've been trying to remove them but they just won't come off. I mean, I've even tried a 180 ft. lbs. of torque impact wrench and that didn't budge 'em. So after all that, my question is...WHAT CAN I DO?! :cry::cry:

 

The most unlikely of tools is your friend in this case:

 

1) Go to the back of your car, remove the back wheel (if it is on there), find the bracket that attaches your e-brake cable to the brake linkage.

 

2) Remove the e-brake cable from the brake linkage and from the bracket.

 

3) Remove the bracket (two bolts).

 

4) Clean any crap, crud, dirt etc. off the bracket.

 

5) Locate the solid dowel pin in the block that is used to align the transmission bellhousing to the engine (aprox. 11' O-clock or 1' O-clock position... don't remember which side off the top of my head).

 

6) The bracket is an L shape, take the long end of that L and stick it between two teeth on the flywheel, now set the short end of the L between two teeth on the flywheel with the bend of the L facing toward the alignment pin (step 5) so that when you turn the flywheel counter clockwise the short end of the L will wedge against the alignment pin.

 

7) Using a breaker bar with the correct size socket and a cheater pipe or a mini sledge (to tap the breaker bar) break each of the bolts loose.

 

8) Slide the L shaped bracket off the flywheel (it comes right off with no effort).

 

9) Reverse the bracket to lock the flywheel in place to torque down the bolts when you put the flywheel back on.

 

10) Put your e-brake back together.

 

If you are going to do this on a regular basis i.e. disassemble and assemble engines for all your buddies etc. go to a wrecking yard and get a couple of these L brackets and keep them handy.

 

Dragonfly

[Dragonfly]

heat up the metal around the bolts as u try to remove them. or try to take them out with a breaker bar and hammer the top where the socket is conneceted.

 

I would avoid using heat here... you do not want to take a chance with weakining the flywheel or the back of the crankshaft. You could potentialy pull the temper out of (or make brittle by heat hardining) the metal that is the primary junction from your engine to your drive train.

 

Dragonfly

[tommyboy]

The most unlikely of tools is your friend in this case:

 

1) Go to the back of your car, remove the back wheel (if it is on there), find the bracket that attaches your e-brake cable to the brake linkage.

 

2) Remove the e-brake cable from the brake linkage and from the bracket.

 

3) Remove the bracket (two bolts).

 

4) Clean any crap, crud, dirt etc. off the bracket.

 

5) Locate the solid dowel pin in the block that is used to align the transmission bellhousing to the engine (aprox. 11' O-clock or 1' O-clock position... don't remember which side off the top of my head).

 

6) The bracket is an L shape, take the long end of that L and stick it between two teeth on the flywheel, now set the short end of the L between two teeth on the flywheel with the bend of the L facing toward the alignment pin (step 5) so that when you turn the flywheel counter clockwise the short end of the L will wedge against the alignment pin.

 

7) Using a breaker bar with the correct size socket and a cheater pipe or a mini sledge (to tap the breaker bar) break each of the bolts loose.

 

8) Slide the L shaped bracket off the flywheel (it comes right off with no effort).

 

9) Reverse the bracket to lock the flywheel in place to torque down the bolts when you put the flywheel back on.

 

10) Put your e-brake back together.

 

If you are going to do this on a regular basis i.e. disassemble and assemble engines for all your buddies etc. go to a wrecking yard and get a couple of these L brackets and keep them handy.

 

Dragonfly

 

Wouldn't that bend the bracket? I only ask cause these bolts are really stuck in there. I mean for example, I had one of those flywheel locking tools that looks like this:

I had breaker bars on both the tool and the rachet plus I wired the tool to the flywheel just in case the teeth slipped. Well, there was so much pressure from both that the tool bent out of shape and is now useless. So that's why I asked about the bracket. Sorry for the long question.

[SilentNight1647]

More than likely he used an impact to put them on (thats what I do) and by the sound of it he used a mighty big one, get a good can of panther piss (aka penetrating oil) spray em down and get the biggest bar you can find have someone else hold the flywheel or you'll never get it undone. I recently replaced the clutch on a 1999 Mustang and it took a foot long bar on a 7/16 wrench to break the u-joint bolts loose, and that was a tiny bolt by comparison don't underestimate the power of bolts to hold stuff together when you really don't want them too.

[TimZ]

I agree that you probably just need a stronger impact wrench - 250 or 350 lb-ft capacity would most likely work better. 180lb-ft is kinda small.

 

btw, is this a steel or aluminum flywheel? Impact wrench is probably okay for fastening a steel flywheel, but you'll likely deform an aluminum flywheel by tightening with an impact wrench. For AL, use a torque wrench.

[tommyboy]

I agree that you probably just need a stronger impact wrench - 250 or 350 lb-ft capacity would most likely work better. 180lb-ft is kinda small.

 

btw, is this a steel or aluminum flywheel? Impact wrench is probably okay for fastening a steel flywheel, but you'll likely deform an aluminum flywheel by tightening with an impact wrench. For AL, use a torque wrench.

 

It's the stock steel flywheel. BTW I'm not wanting t to fasten it to the crank, I wanna take it off. And I don't have a very big air compressor, so I'd have to get an electric one. So where could I get an impact wrench of that size to borrow?

[SHADY280]

maybe take the motor back, a huge pain i know, but then it would be done. also when re-installing it, torque it down with a proper wrench, there are specs for that on purpose. just cause its on the outside of the engine, doesnt mean it doesnt matter as much. i got a 800 ft. lb gun, but it needs huge air line to it! make sure to use a 6 point socket as well, no need to break or slip off anything

[tommyboy]

I talked to a mechanic friend of mine and he's gonna take it off for me tomorrow. Thankx for all of the help guys!

YOU'RE ALL AWESOME!!!

:hail::hail::hail::hail:

[Tony D]

The new Ingersoll Rand #2135 Titanium 1/2" drive Impact Guns have 1100 ft-lbs instantaneous reverse torque with 700# normal... and nigh on 625# in the forward direction! It's a composite body, meaning it's UNDER 4# in your hand as well. 7 Vane Air motor....5CFM Nutrunning, and 24 CFM busting...gaaaarrrrrgggghh! Under $300 as well (check Harbor Freight)

 

Times are changing gentlemen, and those old tools just won't cut it! Many pros are grabbing those Ti guns because they're CHEAP and they have the power of what you formerly used a 3/4"drive to do! I use one to do the 2 5/8" Casing Nuts on a 4C Centac---used to hang a 3/4" impact to do that, and it was a ball-buster to get to some of them...now with the 2135 I can almost one-hand the operation, and when you got 44 Nuts that size to do...LIGHT comes in handy! LOL

[Dragonfly]

Wouldn't that bend the bracket? I only ask cause these bolts are really stuck in there. I mean for example, I had one of those flywheel locking tools that looks like this:

I had breaker bars on both the tool and the rachet plus I wired the tool to the flywheel just in case the teeth slipped. Well, there was so much pressure from both that the tool bent out of shape and is now useless. So that's why I asked about the bracket. Sorry for the long question.

 

Glad your mechanic can take care of it for you, but for your question above. I had that exact same tool and bent the hell out of it and almost ended up with a bloody knuckle situation. The bracket that I was talking about is about 1/8" thick stamped and hardened steel, you would have trouble bending that thing with a 16lb sledge hammer. I have done dozens of flywheels using the same one on both my engines and my friends engines.

 

All the information about impacts are good information but I personaly would not use an impact for tightening the bolts (any bolts) because of the lack of accuracy of the tightening torque. I use an impact for taking things off all the time but never to put them on.

 

A typical snap action type torque wrench has an accuaracy of 2% indicated value to 4% indicated value, a typical torque stick (used on an impact) has an accuracy of about 10% indicated value. So as an example if you are supposed to torque a bolt to 100 ftlbs and you use a snap action wrench you will be between 96 ftlbs and 104 ftlbs which is of course a span of 8 ftlbs but if you use a torque stick you will be between 90 ftlbs and 110 ftlbs which is 20 ftlbs of span. 20 ftlbs of span is equal to a full 5% of the total amount of torque you are trying to apply, that is a huge amount and can certainly cause you problems.

 

With what I told you above I would recomend that you watch your mechanic remove and reinstall the bolts on the flywheel and insure that he uses a torque wrench when installing them and not a torque stick (on an impact) or an impact with no torque limiting device at all.

 

Dragonfly

[tommyboy]

Yeah, I DID end up with a bloody knuckle situation. And of course after the blood bath insued, my mechanic told me that those types of holders are really only meant for lining up the crank and other light work. He's also only gonna use an impact wrench for loosening the bolts. I have a torque wrench Ima use to put 'em back on. Anywho. Again, thankx for all of the help guys!!!

[ezzzzzzz]

Pull the number six spark plug. Rotate the engine by hand until the piston is down in the bore on the being of the intake stroke. Feed a healthy length of 1/4" nylon rope into the bore via the spark plug hole but leave a piece hanging out for removal. Rotate the engine by hand until the rope binds the piston moving upwards. The rope compression should be slow enough to let the intake valve to be fully seated (exhaust will already be closed). Use that breaker bar to loosen the flywheel bolts. Reverse the process to tighten the bolts. Done...no heat, no brackets, no stress.

[Daeron]

The new Ingersoll Rand #2135 Titanium 1/2" drive Impact Guns have 1100 ft-lbs instantaneous reverse torque with 700# normal... and nigh on 625# in the forward direction! It's a composite body, meaning it's UNDER 4# in your hand as well. 7 Vane Air motor....5CFM Nutrunning, and 24 CFM busting...gaaaarrrrrgggghh! Under $300 as well (check Harbor Freight)

 

Times are changing gentlemen, and those old tools just won't cut it! Many pros are grabbing those Ti guns because they're CHEAP and they have the power of what you formerly used a 3/4"drive to do! I use one to do the 2 5/8" Casing Nuts on a 4C Centac---used to hang a 3/4" impact to do that, and it was a ball-buster to get to some of them...now with the 2135 I can almost one-hand the operation, and when you got 44 Nuts that size to do...LIGHT comes in handy! LOL

TonyD, it always stirs me in a frightening way when you talk tools.

 

I used to work for an IR warranty repair shop; we rebuilt alot of other things, too. Those IR Titanium guns are the bee's knees, but NO impact gun can be any better than its air supply. Make sure you have a good sized compressor, and a good sized hose (3/8" is a BARE MINIMUM! 1/2" is FAR preferred even for a 1/2 inch airgun!) or you will NOT get close to ultimate torque rating on the gun.

 

The only problem with those IR guns is the way the air inlet is built into the thing, but they keep tweaking that and improving it. Really, its only a problem when it fails because it can be a pain to remove; most people have plenty of service free hours, as long as they have clean, dry air.....

 

 

 

 

:lmao::lmao:

[DuoWing]

This is a really weird method I came up with. One time when I needed a lot of torque on something and I just couldn't manage to do it, assuming the wrench and breaker bar is in the right position, get the wrench or breaker bar and if you can get it to push in the right position set it on top of a floor jack. I figure this thing can lift a car with no problem, so obviously it should be able to put more than enough torque on a wrench, and sure enough it was able to break the bolt free.