wheelman Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 It was Monday, the last of 3 days of auto-x. The course designer had set up some good fast courses for us and the last one was the fastest. On my first run I rounded a cone wall hard on the gas, the rear got light and came around. I slid sideways through the timing lights and before I got stopped hit a curb still sliding directly sideways. Turned out I got a clean run out of it and actually took second in my class for the day. The rear is busted up pretty good but there appears to be little to no frame tweakage. The hub assembly broke right above where the spindle pin goes through. When I got home we had a bit of a hard time getting the car off the trailer, it seemed like the rear was locked up. Turns out it the e-brake cable pulled by the broken right side locked up the left. Once I got it jacked up and released the cable the left spun just fine. During the loading process the right side axle had pulled from the diff which along with the e-brake made it seem as if the driveline had let go but it hadn't. The front looked fairly minor until I got it jacked up. It looks like the front frame rail on the right side is tweaked a little just behind where the crossmember is bolted on. It didn't seem as if the left side was bent but until I measure it out I won't know for sure. So the initial survey isn't to bad but until I tear it apart I can't be sure. Here are some pictures of the carnage. This is the broken hub assembly. Again from a different angle The axle pulled out of the diff View from rear in garage And the right front wheel, notice location in wheel well to far forward. As for me, I'm a bit sore and still a little shaken. I keep replaying the slide in my mind trying to figure out if there was anything I could have done to prevent hitting the curb once I was sliding. Still haven't decided if cranking the wheel to the left would have helped. The car hit sliding almost directly sideways so probably not but you never know. I had a passenger with me and this is making me question whether or not I will have any in the future. It's a big responsibility to have someone in the car when things like this happen. I really feel bad for any pain or injury he may suffer. He approached me for the ride and seems like a real upstanding type guy so I don't think there'll be problems over Dr. bills. We both were in the full harnesses which I think helped a lot, I'm VERY glad I installed them. Anyway it's currently 3:30AM or so and I need to get back to bed so I'll post again later. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 I'm a little suprised that there was a curb close enough to the finish lights that you could slide into it. I am saying that from the course designers standpoint not from a drivers standpoint, the course designers usualy put a lot of effort into making sure that everywhere a car may slide out at has a enough run off area to not hit anything. I am glad you are ok and your passenger as well (the soreness goes away after a week or so). It is funny (coincidence) that I was autoxing Monday as well and although I did not hit anything I managed to blow second and third gears out of my transmission. The transmission was just rebuilt (by a local shop) last month, it will be going back again with a complaint. Good luck getting your car sorted back out. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 The curb wasn't really all that close to the course. The slide started about 100 feet from the finish lights which were about 50 feet from the curb, the race line was roughly parallel to the curb. I slid through the lights sideways with the rear slowly rotating around to the right. Ended up sliding pretty much sideways into the curb after passing the lights. The rear hit harder but I think the front has damage thats more difficult to fix, I need to take another look at the right side frame rail. Anyway, this is not the fault of the course designer. It was a safe course but very fast and I got way out of sorts from being to aggressive on my first run of the day. Turns out I got second in class from that 1 run. I made a couple runs later that day in my Mustang just to get back in the saddle. I'm glad I did, these things can really mess with your head. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Sorry to hear about the damage, but glad you're alright. Hope you can get it all fixed fairly soon and get her back out on a course. From reading your other posts, you'll probably have power steering by the time it's ready to run again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 It'll be next season before I have it on course again, hopefully. The next event is in mid Oct. which I could probably be ready for but I have several other projects in the works that take priority. So the next time I Auto-X the Z it should have power steering. I had reduced the positive caster for this last weekend which really helped in the high speed maneuvers but slow speed is still pretty heavy. Yeah, I'm really glad no-one was hurt, like I said before I'm really having second thoughts about taking passengers. I would feel real bad if I hurt someone who was riding with me even if they begged for a ride, and I've had a few of those. I've also had several guys pushing real hard to co-drive the Z which will not happen now. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 WOW!... Luckily you kept the shiney side up!!! I can go over a few things that I would be looking at very carefully. Obviously front framerail alignment, Check the position of the center of TC bucket as well. check the steering rack, replace tie rods, replace the front crossmember, Rear end: Check the upper rear frame that spans between the strut towers. It may have been moved over. The vertical suspension brackets may have bent their mounting points at an angle frmo vertical. This will be a frame shop repair just like the front. The rest of the rear end is obvious. Get replacement parts in hand and take it to a frame shop. They can get the framerails squared with the tops of the strut towers. I would figure on replacing the entire suspension on the right side. You may need the rear suspension vertical brackets, the rear lower bracket(with bushing clamps), and the differential crossmember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 I just did a more thorough exam of the Z and found a lot more damage to the front than I saw the first time I looked. Both frame rails are pretty badly tweaked. There are visible bends on the bottom and engine bay sides of them right behind the cross member and the right tension rod bucket is twisted. The cross member and engine were pushed about 1/4" to the left. All this indicates the front is going to need a lot of work to square it up and I don't have the equipment to do the job. I'm going to do some thinking about whether to repair this car or transfer the drive train to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 I just did a more thorough exam of the Z and found a lot more damage to the front than I saw the first time I looked.Both frame rails are pretty badly tweaked. There are visible bends on the bottom and engine bay sides of them right behind the cross member and the right tension rod bucket is twisted. The cross member and engine were pushed about 1/4" to the left. All this indicates the front is going to need a lot of work to square it up and I don't have the equipment to do the job. I'm going to do some thinking about whether to repair this car or transfer the drive train to another. Ouch... thats going to be tough, my first thought would be to find a donor to transfer everything into but then finding a donor that does not have major cancer is pretty difficult. You may want to check around with some local frame shops and see what they say and go from there (while keeping an eye out for a donor). Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Can't think of a better excuse to build a tube frame front end... get out the Sawzall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Yeah! Tube front end! And some Arizona Z car rear suspension stuff!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peternell Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 .Ken, Sorry about the crash. I got to see ya run a couple of other times Saturday afternoon outside the fence, but now I'm really kicking myself that I didn't take you up on the offer for a ride prior to your new no-passanger policy. As you know I've still got some donor parts so let me know what you need and they are yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peternell Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Ken, Here's your transplant car, heck it's even blue. http://spokane.craigslist.org/car/405267592.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 8, 2007 Author Share Posted September 8, 2007 Larry, Thanks for pointing that one out. I haven't made up my mind yet but I did email the seller just to get more information. The fact it has a "rare" automatic is not a selling point for me and I think $1200.00 for a non-running car is a bit much but if it's rust free and he's willing to deal it might be worth it. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I would think a straight, rust-free shell with nothing in it... is worth $1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I would think a straight, rust-free shell with nothing in it... is worth $1000. Man, if I could find straight (straight core support, straiight frame rails, straight rear subframe, striaght floor pans, straight roof, etc.) rust free shells for $1,000 I would buy them in a New York minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted September 8, 2007 Author Share Posted September 8, 2007 I've received some pictures from the guy since I posted. It's not rust free, they never are, but it doesn't look as bad as mine was when I first got it. He placed it on ebay starting at $700.00 on a 3 day no reserve auction. He offered sell it to me for $1000.00 if I paid cash today. No bids yet. Here is the listing http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-Datsun-240-Z-with-A-T-3-DAY-No-Reserve-Auction_W0QQitemZ220147658089QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6187QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I also have a line on a pair for sale in Spokane for $1000.00. One is a 71 the other is a 72. Talked to the guy today on the phone and it turns out he has a 69 240 race car imported from Canada. According to other Datsun guys who race with our Auto-X club the car is immaculate. Anyway a guy who runs a turbo 240 with us lives up there and checked them out yesterday, I'm trying to get in touch with him now. The word is that the 72 has been partially restored so the body is in good shape but the engine is missing, the 71 is a complete car but doesn't run. So, wish me luck. Either way it looks like I have some options at hand and have already been contacted by a member here to buy some of the spare parts that may come out of the whole thing. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roadsterx Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Ken, Now if you would have bought my 240 for $1700 you wouldn't be working on yours all Winter, and I wouldn't have started back on mine again. It is finally back on all 4 wheels after 2 1/2 years .. You need to buy those slicks and wheels from me Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 Mike, I'm glad my "accident" prompted you to get your Z back on the road where it belongs. I've looked at 4 or 5 candidates now and all have required more rust repair than I want to do. I've cleaned almost all of it out of my current car so rebuilding the frame rails is more attractive than starting over. When I consider that doing this will remove even more rust it makes the job an even better option. A couple days ago I bought the steel for the rails. 2.5" x 2.5" x .120" tubing. I got two 6 foot lengths for $41.00. I'll probably need to get a short length of 1" x 3" x .095" to tie the front rails into the under floor rails but until I cut the existing rails out I'll wait on buying it. I'll also get some .25" thick plate to build mount points for the crossmember and sway bar. Lots of fun to come. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srgunz Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Sorry about your bad luck. I had a friend co-drive my Z at an area autocross. It was a large park lot at a technacal school. He lost it and hit a curb at an angle with the front end. I ended up with a bent wheel, bent control arm, bent t/c rod and a tweaked frame rail. I had to pay a shop to straighten the frame rail. They did an excellent job but was very expensive. Since then no one has co-driven my car. This was 25 years ago and the factory frame rails were still available but installation would have been still even more expensive. I have never seen a rear strut break. That was some hit. The wheel never broke? Hard to imagine. I did notice the strut seems to have a lot of corrosion in the spot of the break for some reason. I think fixing it is a better idea than buying a $1000 replacement. A $1000 Z car is like a box of choclates. You never know what you are going to get. I think you are going to have to get more tire on that beast too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 Srgunz, Yes it did break the rim, at least the rear one, the front has some pretty good curb rash now but is still usable. I also noticed the corrosion and it appeared to have been cracked as there was a small amount of rust in the metal where it broke. At least it wasn't someone else driving when it happened, that would have been a huge mess. I did have a passenger at the time but he had asked to ride along and neither of us have reported any soreness. I have 4-point harnesses in both seats which I'm sure helped a lot, although I don't think I'll be taking passengers in the future. I hear what you're saying about a $1000.00 Z. All of them have had rust plus had been sitting for years, not what I want to deal with. "Box of Chocolates" you know. As for needing more tire, I completely agree, if I'd accepted that reality sooner I might not be rebuilding the front end now. Oh, well it's all good experience for when I decide to build a car from scratch? Maybe a Locost will be the next project, or a Factory Five Cobra, only the Shadow knows. Roadsterx has a set of Konig Rewinds with Goodyear cantilever slicks he's been trying to sell me, maybe I'll take them off his hands. Anybody have experience with them that can provide some feedback?? Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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