For the Pilots....Nervous Instructor?

[Globerunner513]

Well, i know there's some pilots on the forums here, so figured I'd put this up here, cause i really need some opinions from those who've been here before.

 

So, as a couple of you know i started the University of North Dakota's flight program at the satellite school here in Spokane, WA. Im loving the course, however im having a little bit of trouble with my instructor, and just seeing if anyone else ever had this problem?

 

Little background:

Solo'd at 9.5 hrs during a 10 day camp 3 years ago (16 yrs old).

Havn't flown between then and this program.

 

But, as i've been flying, most of what i learned 3 years ago is coming back to me. Although we flew Cessna's and here they use Warriors. So the high vs. low wing has taken some getting used to. But, i am confident in controlling the aircraft. Not saying im a pro at all, cause i know i have SOOOOO much to learn still.

 

[rant]

 

Anyway there have been a lot of times where, as i am in the process of flying the plane (first priority of the pilot btw), he will grab the controlls and make an adjustment he sees appropriate, without advising me about it first.

An example of this would be me turning from Base to Final. for some reason I've been having trouble anticipating my turns accurately, and thus end up high or low on the glide slope. However, i always am in the process of correcting for this. Say i come in too high, he will set the aircraft into a slip, instead of letting me perform the maneuver. Or if i come in low...as my hand is controlling the throttle, he will still add power, or say "add some power" as im in the process of adding power.

 

Aswell as right over the runway, he will take control and set the plane down properly, without allowing me to feel the mistake i was making. Consequently, i've been making the same mistakes over and over. Making it look like i can't fly the plane like i know i can. Again not boasting, or saying i know it all...but just saying i know i can fly better than what is being displayed to my instructor.

 

I don't know if i explained that in a way that made sense at all...its just been a frustrating experience. And the other 5 or 6 students that have him as an instructor have said the same thing happens to them. The sad thing is, most of them have maybe 1 or 2 hours of previous flight time...so they are really having a struggle understanding, and getting a feel for the plane.

 

SO...am i just over reacting? cause i've been feeling that i would be learning more if i was alone in the plane. honestly. And flight time isn't cheap to be throwing it away...

 

Also, how would you approach an him about this? We have a director, with an open door policy, but i don't want to go behind my instructor's back by any means.

 

Anyway...thanks for listening.

 

[/rant]

[Challenger]

Hey Globerunner did you do Civil Air Patrol over in Bellingham? I saw that you flew when you were around 16. I was in CAP for a couple years when I was younger and got to fly 3 or 4 times. Wish I could have done more.

[oldskoolZ]

My brother had an instructor much like this, although not so much grabbing the controls allot, just yelling at him all the time, "Get off the brakes! GET OFF THE BRAKES!!" and things like that. My bro would always turn from base to final too soon and be to high and the instructor would get all mad and flip out on him...but he just bit the bullet ,as it were, and dealt with it. Your instructor does however sound allot more challenging than his. This prolly didn't help much just thought Id share this story with you. Hope everything works out for you.

[patzky1]

Take this from a "professional student" of the aviation field who graduated from a similar program as a CFII and now fly for the Navy. I have also had some real interesting relationships with instructors at times, but nothing that was not fixable with a little chat session and some maintenance.

 

You are not over-reacting, IMHO, and some students and instructors just plain don't mix, but that percentage is VERY low. You just need to talk with him a little bit to let him see what you mean, so don't be scared to tell him what you are experiencing in your next brief.

 

Instructors are not taught to take the controls away from you when you are doing a maneuver unless for the safety of flight. From my experience, the only times he should be solely be manipulating the controls are after a positive 3-way change of controls (or during a quick maneuver to avoid a bird, etc. if there's not time). Otherwise, he should be suggesting inputs more than making the actual inputs and letting you make your mistakes. One exception would be if you came in excessively low he might simply say "I have the controls" and immediately execute a go around for you when things get questionably unsafe. IMO he should not be simply doing slips for you or adding power for you in the pattern without you first knowing he is going to be doing so. Instead, he should be coaching you on how to fix the situation when you get a little "off". Yes, this is a simple concept, but some instructors might not yet have the right feel for how much "riding along" on the controls is actually too much.

 

Bottom line is this: YOU are paying a great deal of money for your flight training. It's worth the effort to straighten things out between you and the instructor. Don't be scare to talk to him, either! He was most likely in your shoes just a few years ago.

 

Pat

[proxlamus©]

Base to final are typically the #1 place to stall/spin into the ground.. several instructors have died the past few months in Colorado..

 

basically its a "well qualified" flight instructor (some are crap.. but they have the "hours") teaching a kid how to fly.

 

They literally put their lifes on end everyday when the fly with young students.. the instructor simply cant trust the student right off with such low hours and almost no experience.

 

Ive seen soo many students hit the nose wheel on landings.. or literally fly the airplane into the ground for a landing.. not a smooth flair and land on the rear wheels (tri gear).. all wheels at once and a big bounce.

 

Im studying for my CFI now... and to be honest.. there's alot of student I wouldnt want to fly with.. alot of so called "certificated pilots" fly like crap.

 

Dont freak out.. he is just doing whats best... just takes experience and practice. I agree he is a bit on edge.

 

my CFII flew with a student the other day doing a touch and go w retractable gear.. once he touched down instead of putting flaps up.. he put the gear up. Once the lever is up its too late. my instructor couldnt save it. 2,500 hrs and no accident.. then boom. not good

[proxlamus©]

oh and.. #1 i should proof read before i post.

#2... i meant the STUDENT put the gear up instead of flaps.. not my instructor lol.

[jt1]

posted by patzky1

 

Otherwise, he should be suggesting inputs more than making the actual inputs and letting you make your mistakes. One exception would be if you came in excessively low he might simply say "I have the controls" and immediately execute a go around for you when things get questionably unsafe. IMO he should not be simply doing slips for you or adding power for you in the pattern without you first knowing he is going to be doing so. Instead, he should be coaching you on how to fix the situation when you get a little "off". Yes, this is a simple concept, but some instructors might not yet have the right feel for how much "riding along" on the controls is actually too much.

 

 

This is very true. The bottom line is it's all about communication, the only time he should take the controls is if there is a safety issue. Talk to him about it, and explain your position as calmly and accurately as possible. Then listen to what he says, and try it out. The flip side is when he gives you instructions, do your absolute best to execute them as he suggests. This will help him gain confidence in you quickly.

 

Most of the time you can work it out, but if it's not working ask for another instructor, and be prepared to give quick, precise, and logical reasons for your request. A good pilot is expected to communicate intelligently and accurately.

[RTz]

I'm with Patzky all the way.

 

I have NEVER had an instructor take the controls from me, with three exceptions...

 

1) Once, while landing in a 40 knot wind, ground speed zero, I got the plane on the ground nicely (and stopped)... but it wasn't done flying... a gust rolled us up on our side to the point of the outboard wing coming within 12 inches of the runway. Instructor saved the plane. Barely. At that time I was too inexperienced for that situation. Probably still am.

 

2) If I asked him to demonstrate something I didn't understand.

 

3) If he wanted to demonstrate something... uh... 'outside the normal scope of training' We had LOTS of fun.

 

All of my instructors have allowed me to make mistakes. That's how you learn. Take for example the student that enleans at altitude, later descends, forgetting to enrich, and subsequently kills the engine. You can bet your socks that student will NEVER make that mistake again. That particular story isn't mine, but I have a few like it. Controlled environment is KEY. Providing that environment is the instructors job.

 

If it were me, I'd introduce that instructor to the two step program...

 

First, respectfully state you thoughts. He may have a surprisingly good answer. He may even be receptive and adjust his style.

 

Second, If you don't strike an accord, pay the Chief Flight Instructor a visit and get yourself an instructor that knows how to instruct.

[proxlamus©]

hmm both of my instructors will.. "help" with the controls.. they dont completely take over..

 

i kinda like it.. gives me that extra bump

[RTz]

hmm both of my instructors will.. "help" with the controls.. they dont completely take over..

 

I would agree, at times, that action is appropriate.

 

Globerunner seems to be talking about something entirely different... of course, there are always two sides to every story. Thats why he needs to civilly present himself to his instructor... Globe just may glean a new perspective. Further, if they can't work out issues on the ground, they don't belong in a plane together.

[2003z]

like Patzky said (fellow naval aviator here myself, although now I fly for Delta), talk to the guy. If you can't work it out, ask for a new instructor.

[Meghan]

As stated above, have a sit down chat with your instructor during your preflight. Something non-confrontational like, "How do I get to the point where you are just telling me instructions instead of showing me?" If you don't like the answer, you always have the option of finding another instructor.

 

Also remember though, that base to final is the scary time for some instructors with low time students. I bet that every CFI out there has had at least one student fly base slow and a bit low and overshoot the final only to yank the yoke over and back to tighten the turn without regard to keeping the ball centered on the rate of turn indicator. I did once. My instructor took over and landed. We then went up in his Citabria and he made me do the approach the same way but with 3000 ft higher. My response was, "DAMN! That thing snaps over FAST!"

[RTz]

Globe,

 

Did you find any resolve?

[Globerunner513]

well, since i was pretty close to my solo, i wanted to wait until then to see how things played out.

 

And things got ALOT better once he put himself in the position of "this is your plane...im just a passenger", in preperation for my solo. And i actually learned a lot more, and my landings and everything along with that got considerably better.

 

And so, things are actually going fine now. I think he has enough confidence in me now to let me adjust for my own mistakes and let me make my own calls in the air. So i havn't talked to him about it yet...although im pretty sure i still will just for the sake of future students he might have.

 

But thank you to everyone here, seriously. I really needed some outside opinions on the matter.

[Challenger]

Hey Daniel I saw your car out at SFCC and lights were left on, were you able to start your car? BTW looks good to have your air dam back on.

[Globerunner513]

haha....yea i was thankfully.

 

And thanks, im glad i have the airdam back on it too.

[Bob_H]

While this is a little past your experience now that you are at the Solo point - you might still be able to use it.

I'm a flight instructor for the Navy,(granted for jets, but the principles are the same).

Here is what I did when I had an instructor who grabbed the controls w/o saying anything - when he grabbed them, I immediately said "you have the controls". To which I usually got a surprised "I have the controls". It only took a few times to get my point across in a non-offending manner. In the debrief we talked about the fact that he did this alot and I was often confused who was flying the plane - not a good place to be in the landing pattern - there should NEVER be any confusion about that. Either you are flying or you are not. That becomes especially important if you ever get into formation flying - but that is another stage in your flying.

Bottom line - YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE TRAINING. If your not happy you must bring it up and if you can't resolve it, get a new instructor - who cares if you hurt their feelings - its your money, not theirs. If you don't speak up, quite honestly while we would like to point a finger to the instructor - the student who doesn't speak up holds at least equal blame.

Good luck with your training - I love flying and get excited like a little kid every time - and it doesn't matter if its a 500kt jet or a 100kt Cessna, flying is flying and I can't believe I get paid to do it.

-Bob