sstallings Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 WARNING: If you don't want to know, don't open th attachment! Every book or resource I read tells me the Z V8 swap will cost me about double what I estimate, so I set out to test that theory. I figured I could do a low-buck carburated + T5 swap for about 2-Grand, and an LT1 + T56 swap for about 4-Grand. What really surprised me (see attached Excel spreadsheet), is that when all is said and done, the low-buck vs. LT1 swaps are only a few hundred bucks apart, not counting labor hours. (I've already been warned about the complexity differences.) Most of my costs came from JTR, Bowers, Jegs, Summit, etc. Anybody could dispute my numbers by using E-Bay, salvage yards, deals from builder buddies, as I will try to do as well, but the similarities of cost vs. the performance and technology differences really surprised me. At least I now have a realistic estimate to start with. Now I can try to beat it. Note: The only reason I started with the anemic '77 Camro LM1 is becasue I have one available. If you started with a Corvette L82 you could skip most of my Edelbrock parts, but your initial costs could be about the same as my upgrades. If anybody thinks my numbers are crap, that's okay. But if you think I missed some big cost items, please speak up. This cost data has convinced me to do the LT1. Thanks, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsun350Z Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Nothing attached... Interesting topic though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab0z Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Please update with attachment, I am interested to see the numbers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 looks like the wife saw the spread sheet and choked his butt to death....before he could post it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 :lmao: LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragefear Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 looks like the wife saw the spread sheet and choked his butt to death....before he could post it..... awesome, thats exactly what I was thinkin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstallings Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 Guys, I know I attached it, but as a new member, I may not be using the site's tools correctly. I'll try again. Here goes... Steve (Apparently the site can't upload an Excel spreadsheet, so I turned it into a .jpg picture of the spreadsheet, so I hope you can read it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstallings Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 Guys, The last one was almost readable. Unfortunately, I keep exceeding the file size limts of the site. So I just copied it into the body of this message. I hope you can read it now. Steve 1977 280Z V8 Conversion (Calif. Emission-Legal) Equipment for '77-79 carb ML1 Z28 Cost Equipment for 95 LT1 Z28 EFI Cost 170-200 Net HP, 270 lbft torque 275 Net HP, 305 lbft torque JTR mounts & bracket $325.00 JTR mounts & bracket $325.00 Camaro Radiator $225.00 Stealth Camaro Radiator $225.00 Fan Shroud & electric fan '90 Taurus $49.00 Fan Shroud & electric fan '90 Taurus (salvage) $49.00 Tilton 75-750U .75" bore clutch master $50.00 Tilton 75-750U .75" bore clutch master cyl. $50.00 1988-92 WC T5 transmission 0.63 OD (w/ all clutch & flywheel parts) $1,000.00 T5 speedo gear $49.00 reconditioned driveshaft $100.00 Driveshaft shorten & balance $80.00 Driveshaft shorten & balance $80.00 Chrysler fuel pump safety switch $30.00 79 LM1 350 V8 Jegs bottom end kit $200.00 95 LT1 & T56 0.5 OD engine/trans (70K miles) $3,000.00 Edelbrock 1476 EGR adapter $20.00 Bowers AC mount $289.00 3 angle valve job on existing heads $250.00 AutoMeter Electronic Speedo ATM-3989 $194.00 Edelbrock 3701 alum intake $157.00 AutoMeter Electronic Tach ATM-3990 $138.00 Edelbrock 8811 alum water pump $150.00 Autometer elec. speedo sender (ATM-5291/2) ?? Edelbrock 8850 head bolts $20.00 Edelbrock 2102 camshaft $110.00 miscellaneous smog equipment $300.00 miscellaneous hardware $100.00 miscellaneous hardware $100.00 electric fuel pump for carb $145.00 rams horn exhaust manifolds $100.00 exhaust system modifications $300.00 exhaust system modifications $300.00 timing chain $67.00 timing chain (Cloyes) $249.00 Total Driveline Upgrades $3,827.00 Total Driveline Upgrades $4,750.00 Toyota 4X4 truck disc brake upgrade $300.00 Toyota 4X4 truck disc brake upgrade $300.00 Datsun 510 rear drums $100.00 Datsun 510 rear drums $100.00 Proportioning valve (Wilwood) $42.00 Proportioning valve (Wilwood) $42.00 Motorsports SCCA Roll bar $270.00 Motorsports SCCA Roll bar $270.00 Total Safety Upgrades $712.00 Total Safety Upgrades $712.00 AC kit from Motorsports $700.00 Camaro AC components (condenser, dryer) $300.00 Paint $500.00 Paint $500.00 Interior $500.00 Interior $500.00 Total Cosmetic Upgrades $1,700.00 Total Cosmetic Upgrades $1,300.00 Total Mechanical & Cosmetic $6,239.00 Total Mechanical & Cosmetic $6,762.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstallings Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 Guys, The last one was almost readable. Unfortunately, I keep exceeding the file size limts of the site. So I just copied it into the body of this message. I hope you can read it now. Steve 1977 280Z V8 Conversion (Calif. Emission-Legal) Equipment for '77-79 carb ML1 Z28 Cost Equipment for 95 LT1 Z28 EFI Cost 170-200 Net HP, 270 lbft torque 275 Net HP, 305 lbft torque JTR mounts & bracket $325.00 JTR mounts & bracket $325.00 Camaro Radiator $225.00 Stealth Camaro Radiator $225.00 Fan Shroud & electric fan '90 Taurus $49.00 Fan Shroud & electric fan '90 Taurus (salvage) $49.00 Tilton 75-750U .75" bore clutch master $50.00 Tilton 75-750U .75" bore clutch master cyl. $50.00 1988-92 WC T5 transmission 0.63 OD (w/ all clutch & flywheel parts) $1,000.00 T5 speedo gear $49.00 reconditioned driveshaft $100.00 Driveshaft shorten & balance $80.00 Driveshaft shorten & balance $80.00 Chrysler fuel pump safety switch $30.00 79 LM1 350 V8 Jegs bottom end kit $200.00 95 LT1 & T56 0.5 OD engine/trans (70K miles) $3,000.00 Edelbrock 1476 EGR adapter $20.00 Bowers AC mount $289.00 3 angle valve job on existing heads $250.00 AutoMeter Electronic Speedo ATM-3989 $194.00 Edelbrock 3701 alum intake $157.00 AutoMeter Electronic Tach ATM-3990 $138.00 Edelbrock 8811 alum water pump $150.00 Autometer elec. speedo sender (ATM-5291/2) ?? Edelbrock 8850 head bolts $20.00 Edelbrock 2102 camshaft $110.00 miscellaneous smog equipment $300.00 miscellaneous hardware $100.00 miscellaneous hardware $100.00 electric fuel pump for carb $145.00 rams horn exhaust manifolds $100.00 exhaust system modifications $300.00 exhaust system modifications $300.00 timing chain $67.00 timing chain (Cloyes) $249.00 Total Driveline Upgrades $3,827.00 Total Driveline Upgrades $4,750.00 Toyota 4X4 truck disc brake upgrade $300.00 Toyota 4X4 truck disc brake upgrade $300.00 Datsun 510 rear drums $100.00 Datsun 510 rear drums $100.00 Proportioning valve (Wilwood) $42.00 Proportioning valve (Wilwood) $42.00 Motorsports SCCA Roll bar $270.00 Motorsports SCCA Roll bar $270.00 Total Safety Upgrades $712.00 Total Safety Upgrades $712.00 AC kit from Motorsports $700.00 Camaro AC components (condenser, dryer) $300.00 Paint $500.00 Paint $500.00 Interior $500.00 Interior $500.00 Total Cosmetic Upgrades $1,700.00 Total Cosmetic Upgrades $1,300.00 Total Mechanical & Cosmetic $6,239.00 Total Mechanical & Cosmetic $6,762.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstallings Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 This is getting annoying, but I think I figured out how to get it sent in a readable format. (Last attempt) Equipment for '77-79 carb ML1 Z28 Cost 170-200 Net HP, 270 lbft torque JTR mounts & bracket $325.00 Camaro Radiator $225.00 Fan Shroud & electric fan '90 Taurus $49.00 Tilton 75-750U .75" bore clutch master $50.00 1988-92 WC T5 transmission 0.63 OD (w/ all clutch & flywheel parts) $1,000.00 T5 speedo gear $49.00 reconditioned driveshaft $100.00 Driveshaft shorten & balance $80.00 Chrysler fuel pump safety switch $30.00 79 LM1 350 V8 Jegs bottom end kit $200.00 Edelbrock 1476 EGR adapter $20.00 3 angle valve job on existing heads $250.00 Edelbrock 3701 alum intake $157.00 Edelbrock 8811 alum water pump $150.00 Edelbrock 8850 head bolts $20.00 Edelbrock 2102 camshaft $110.00 miscellaneous smog equipment $300.00 miscellaneous hardware $100.00 electric fuel pump for carb $145.00 rams horn exhaust manifolds $100.00 exhaust system modifications $300.00 timing chain $67.00 Total Driveline Upgrades $3,827.00 Toyota 4X4 truck disc brake upgrade $300.00 Datsun 510 rear drums $100.00 Proportioning valve (Wilwood) $42.00 Motorsports SCCA Roll bar $270.00 Total Safety Upgrades $712.00 AC kit from Motorsports $700.00 Paint $500.00 Interior $500.00 Total Cosmetic Upgrades $1,700.00 Total Mechanical & Cosmetic ******************************************************************************************** Equipment for 95 LT1 Z28 EFI Cost 275 Net HP, 305 lbft torque JTR mounts & bracket $325.00 Stealth Camaro Radiator $225.00 Fan Shroud & electric fan '90 Taurus (salvage) $49.00 Tilton 75-750U .75" bore clutch master cyl. $50.00 Driveshaft shorten & balance $80.00 95 LT1 & T56 0.5 OD engine/trans (70K miles) $3,000.00 Bowers AC mount $289.00 AutoMeter Electronic Speedo ATM-3989 $194.00 AutoMeter Electronic Tach ATM-3990 $138.00 Autometer elec. speedo sender (ATM-5291/2) ?? miscellaneous hardware $100.00 exhaust system modifications $300.00 timing chain (Cloyes) $249.00 Total Driveline Upgrades $4,750.00 Toyota 4X4 truck disc brake upgrade $300.00 Datsun 510 rear drums $100.00 Proportioning valve (Wilwood) $42.00 Motorsports SCCA Roll bar $270.00 Total Safety Upgrades $712.00 Camaro AC components (condenser, dryer) $300.00 Paint $500.00 Interior $500.00 Total Cosmetic Upgrades $1,300.00 Total Mechanical & Cosmetic $6,762.00 $6,239.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 That's all? Heck, Talk to us when you've reached a file cabinet full of receipts, like PParaska! Oh, wait, er, that was ME that had that cabinet full of receipts! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstallings Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 Okay, I just checked with the HybridZ site adminstrator and found out I can send any file size if it's zipped. I should have thought of that. For those of you who want the full Excel file, it's attached here. The bottom line is that unless I really screwed up the numbers, the low tech swap and the LT1 swap are within about $500, so unless wiring is a huge concern to someone, I'm liking the LT1 for a number of reasons, including: Newer lower mileage sources, more base power, more potential power upgrades, etc. Thanks for being patient with my experimenting with upload options on this site. Steve 280Z V8.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 hey I exceeded that total cost building my 1985 corvettes engine alone (BY a WIDE MARGIN) and I get a few things wholesale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragefear Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Guys,The last one was almost readable. Unfortunately, I keep exceeding the file size limts of the site. So I just copied it into the body of this message. I hope you can read it now. Steve glad to see you were able to escape with ur life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragefear Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 thats actually not a bad price, considering I spend 4 grand on my motor and tranny alone! I expect to quadruple that if not more! Z's for life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab0z Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I could see how the swap could easily range much higher in cost, depending on your sources and desired power, but this is a GREAT starting point for those considering the swap and thinking it can be done for some insane price like $1500. (I've had people tell me it should cost that, and I told them to get their head checked.) It looks like you've included most if not all the items in your list, so if we want to check prices on things ourselves, we can easily calculate the cost. Great Work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey_Allen Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 There is another possibility: pick up someone else's project and finish it. I bought my '73 for $1500, and am something like another $1500 into it, due to having to rebuild the upper end of the engine. Admittedly, it's a low tech gen 1 small block, with easily available parts, and I'm going to have to do a little body work to get rid of a little rust, but I figure that comes with owning a 30+ year old car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimZee Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Thanks for the list man, hopefully your wife understands the importance of a Z! Those prices sound like what I am expecting to spend, if not more than 7K. I plan on taking time to do my project, so I'm sure it will not be too much of a shock. I could see how the swap could easily range much higher in cost, depending on your sources and desired power, but this is a GREAT starting point for those considering the swap and thinking it can be done for some insane price like $1500. (I've had people tell me it should cost that, and I told them to get their head checked.) It looks like you've included most if not all the items in your list, so if we want to check prices on things ourselves, we can easily calculate the cost. Great Work! Wow, who would ever would spend $1500 on a swap ahahahaha that amazed me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8dan Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Sticky for the n00bs. Like me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baddriver Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 You've done a very good job of estimating the cost. I'm around 75% done with my conversion right now, and I'd say, for the things you've listed, you're right on. Now follow everyone's advice and double that, and you'll have a budget. As has been stated many times before, it's the little things that people tend to drastically underestimate. For instance, I notice there is no fuel pump on the LT1 path. A good pump will run you $100, then add standard fuel line ($30) high-pressure line (I used SS braided, with end fittings, around $50) in-line filter, wiring, a relay, crimp-on fittings, in-line fuses, and you've got at least $250 in parts in the fuel system. The list of little things is enormous, I spent $35 just on the bolts to install the JTR mounts, and of course, don't forget that you still need a standard chevy mount to actually connect it to the car (the JTR kit has the spacer and set-back plate, the mount is sold seperately) Most of these parts by themselves are inexpensive, but they just keep adding up. I started a similar list for my conversion, and when you include paint, sandpaper (you want your engine compartment to look nice, right?) wiring loom, holders, thermal insulation, etc, these things really can be a major component in your build. Oh, and fixing any leaks you find in that donor engine, replacing o2 sensors that were in the y-pipe (add $100 to the LT1 side for 02 sensors, you'll never get them out of the stock pipe with the threads intact) , oh, and....well, you know. I also noticed there were no headers on the list, the $ figure you used for "exhaust modifications" would have covered the cost of headers, but I think is pretty optimistic as far as a working exhaust system goes. I think you've done a great job estimating the cost of the major components, and that's a great start to a successful project. It's the minor parts that are hard to get a handle on. If you are lucky enough to have a good shop and a complete set of tools to start with, then that will also help greatly. Otherwise, plan on spending $1 on tools for every $1 on parts. Good luck with your conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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