24ounce Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 allright i have a 70 240 and i want to do a bit of suspension work i have gotten new tires and wheels along with new generic shocks and msa springs and have replaced all bushing with a poly kit and went through the rest of the suspension - so mostly stock with new parts. would a rear sway bar now be a good addition - i will be looking at autoxing the car a bit down the road and i want a nice firm car (i have an 86 turbo with the factory adjustable suspension and i always leave it on firm i love it) (after the motor install will probably be doing some coil overs and adjustable shocks along with a few other things). I am no suspension expert but i think i would like to have a car that i could push in hard and correct easy with over steer. the 70 came with no rear sway bar at all so i was wondering were i could get a decent one as a kit that would install in the rear. all i have seen is swaybar kits sold front and rear and the rear is always smaller i was actually looking to get the rear the same size or a bit bigger than the front what do you guys think i should do? i guess getting a set and doing the front sway bar as well wouldnt be a bad idea like i said im not suspension expert and also what is involed in installing a rear swaybar on a 240 that came with none - the car right now is fairly stock but the 3.1 in the garage only needs an oil pump water pump timming chain kit a head gasket and headbolts so its on its way searched but wasnt all that successful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I am no suspension expert but i think i would like to have a car that i could push in hard and correct easy with over steer. Heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 You want to go with a kit instead of just ading a sway bar to the rear. The ST kit works great and comes with everything you need to help reduce body roll. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=STQ%2D52095&N=700+4294907666+4294925074+4294902027+115&autoview=sku MSA sells a kit as well, but I don't know who makes their bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Please post your results. My experience with a rear bar so far has not been positive to say the least. It has done nothing but get me facing on coming traffic on the track! I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the driver but I'd still like to see your results. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24ounce Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 is that a bad idea Johnc? am i not heading in the right direction and i guess a smaller rear bar is the way to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 tuff z Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 johnc, no reply to the 'want to put a larger bar on the rear'? i don't think that would be the prudent thing to do and would create excessive oversteer/unhappiness! addco also offers bars, although you can purchase them separately. 1" front and either 3/4" or 7/8" rear. the 3/4 is a rear mount and the 7/8 a front mount in the stock location [for those z's that have the existing factory brackets]. their number is 616.636.8856. said they'd also provide group discounts, beginning with the fourth set [if i remember correctly]. i'd say make a few runs to establish a baseline for the handling and go from there-once you know what the car is doing and can do. you may find it's to your liking just the way it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24ounce Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 the msa set is about the same price but has a 7/8in rear as opposed to 3/4in on the summit suspension techniques - but the techniques one looks like it comes with a better kit with all the hardwear and everything. Has anyone got the msa kit? does it have everything the techniques kit has - i may give them a call later but unless someone says somethign really good about the msa kit ill probably just order through summit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24ounce Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 thanks tuff - i saw the addco piceses - right now to me the suspension techniques one from summit looks good - looks like everything i will need at $240 anyone got any positive or negative input on any kit? i wonte be buying for a few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I recently rebuilt my suspension with different parts, and knowing that it may be erroneous thinking, I re-installed the rear sway bar. After one lap in the car, I removed the rear bar completely (same as prior set-up) and picked up 1.5 seconds. Past postings will verify this is no surprise with certain set-ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 johnc, no reply to the 'want to put a larger bar on the rear'? i don't think that would be the prudent thing to do and would create excessive oversteer/unhappiness! It all depends on what you're comfortable with as a driver. The vast majority of drivers (even those that do the occaisional track days) think a neutral handling car has a bad oversteer problem. For fast lap times you want a car that's "Uh oh!" loose on lift throttle when you're near the traction limit. I tend to setup my own cars to be "Oh ♥♥♥♥!" loose on lift throttle at the traction limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I recently rebuilt my suspension with different parts, and knowing that it may be erroneous thinking, I re-installed the rear sway bar. After one lap in the car, I removed the rear bar completely (same as prior set-up) and picked up 1.5 seconds. Past postings will verify this is no surprise with certain set-ups.Terry, do you know why your car was faster without the sway bar? Did it reduced body roll, but made the car too stiff? Was the track uneven or a little on the rough side? My car is definitely a lot stiffer with the bar installed, but I haven't got it out on the autocross course since the upgrade, so I don't know if there is any difference in performance. I do know that I had a considerable amount of body roll before I installed it. I'm really interested in hearing about the 'seat of pants' difference between running the bar and not running the bar as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 the msa set is about the same price but has a 7/8in rear as opposed to 3/4in on the summit suspension techniques - but the techniques one looks like it comes with a better kit with all the hardwear and everything. Has anyone got the msa kit? does it have everything the techniques kit has - i may give them a call later but unless someone says somethign really good about the msa kit ill probably just order through summit I went with the MSA kit on my 73. But mine already had the brackets to mount the rear bar in front of the axle so I can't help you with the completeness of the kit. I will say that they were willing to make up a custom kit for me since I wanted the 1" bar for the 73, but the 7/8" bar from the '74 (to use my existing brackets). I've had them for 3+ years now and have been very happy with them. Everything has held up well including the mounting hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24ounce Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 well this is really an on off thing some ppl seem to like it some not - i guess i better just wait and get the car on the track a few times without the rear bar to see how it works without one and if it does i guess there is no need or one thanks for the input guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Terry, do you know why your car was faster without the sway bar? Did it reduced body roll, but made the car too stiff? Was the track uneven or a little on the rough side? My car is definitely a lot stiffer with the bar installed... The stiffness had less to do with it than the balance between front and rear. My set-up (235F/265R spring rates with a 1" bar up front) was a good balance. In fact, I could probably increase the front bar or springs to get even better times, but I'm close enough with a nice amount of what John calls "Oh..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 When I had 225-50-16 v700 all the way around, I used 1 inch up front and 3/4 rear mount Addco style in back, felt great for me. When I switched to 245 45-16 all the way around the car went from what I like to way more oversteer. I tried no bar in the back, but the car felt kinda slow to respond to input, I even tried more rear toe / no good. I next tried a 1-1/8 front with the 3/4 rear bar again, still not feeling good. Finally, I made a new rear bar out of 5/8 stress proof and put the 1" back in front and the car is back on track to what I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Bryan Lampe's regional ITS championship 240Z ran 275F, 300R springs with adjustable 1" front and 5/8" rear ARBs. I ran 275 or 300F and 300 to 350R springs with either a 25mm or 23mm front ARB and a 3/4" adjustable rear ARB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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