OlderThanMe Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I just found this "pintle-regulated" induction system. http://www.prvperformance.com/ I thought it would be VERY interesting to discuss here. I wonder how much throttle modulation you would be able to have. I guess that would be dependent on how far the pintle enters the intake runner tract and how you control the pintle. (stepper motor, hydraulic, pneumatic, or mechanical control) Wht are your thoughts? OTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 48mpg is impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 I was thinking of the benefits of not having a throttle body in the intake tract... It wold have the benefit of ITB's without the turbulance. It would be MUCH easier to utilize the Helmoltz resonation properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Ya, I'm sure thats where the equal gain in hp and tq comes from on their dyno results. no? Wouldn't it be easiest to just use a mechanic set up? Or you thinking using a motor and having that tunability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I dont see how this it going to make it easier to take advantage of resonance. The main benefit that I see in this design is the reduction in turbulence over the entire range of throttle positions. However, once a normal TB has gone to full throttle I dont see there being a huge amoung of turbulence due to the traditional throttle plate. It is an interesting design though and I would love to be proven wrong. I would like to know more about the design and what its benefit is over normal throttle bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Well its my understanding air entering comes mostly from the edges so even when a traditional throttle butterfly is full open there is still a large section to cause turbulence and restriction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Ya, I'm sure thats where the equal gain in hp and tq comes from on their dyno results. no? Wouldn't it be easiest to just use a mechanic set up? Or you thinking using a motor and having that tunability? DUH... What did I miss? lol Mechanical would be the easiest I think. I dont see how this it going to make it easier to take advantage of resonance. By not having any disturbance in your perfectly straight and long intake tract... That way it could be modeled and calculated more accurately without having to factor in a metal shaft right in the center of the intake tract. Well its my understanding air entering comes mostly from the edges so even when a traditional throttle butterfly is full open there is still a large section to cause turbulence and restriction. True... Now if someone could develop a throttle plate that had no shaft running through the runner... Then turbulance would go down a bunch(IMO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Well you suggested using actuators or stepper motors, was just my suggestion. Maybe I'm the one who missed something lol. Gate throttles don't use a shaft through the center. Manufacturers like mazda are using them stock too but Idk how hard or easy it would be for a novice to come up with a working SEALED version. Also I have seen some good barrel valve designs too but I don't see many people using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted December 20, 2007 Administrators Share Posted December 20, 2007 Not to thread jack, but.. … what about a barrel valve style TB or slide valve? No throttle shaft or Pintle valve controller arrangement in the intake tract. At WOT, just a perfectly straight shot, NOTHING in the air stream to induce eddies or disturb the flow. Butterfly, Barrel, Spike/pintle Throttling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 http://www.lumenition.com/new/main.php/throtb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Not to thread jack, but.. … what about a barrel valve style TB or slide valve? No throttle shaft or Pintle valve controller arrangement in the intake tract. At WOT, just a perfectly straight shot, NOTHING in the air stream to induce eddies or disturb the flow. Butterfly, Barrel, Spike/pintle Throttling... My previous post? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Not to thread jack, but.. … what about a barrel valve style TB or slide valve? No throttle shaft or Pintle valve controller arrangement in the intake tract. At WOT, just a perfectly straight shot, NOTHING in the air stream to induce eddies or disturb the flow. Butterfly, Barrel, Spike/pintle Throttling... Barrel valve would be interesting. Some simple calculus could find out the area between the two curves so that a proper cam could be made to actuate the barrel exactly so that depressing the throttle 50% would allow 50% throttle exatly. The slide valve and barrel methods would probably be easier to fabricate but I believe the pintle/spike method would be able to flow smoother through the full range of RPMs. For the complexity it would probably not be worth it unless you were running in a restricted racing class such as FSAE, then it would be invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 One barrel maybe would use a linear response. If you have multiple barrels, then you want a dead tip-in for drivability. Why put anything at all in there or worry about designing the 'correct cam' for the application, and simply control the intake and exhaust valves via electrohydraulic actuators driven off an engine-based pump and accumulator setup? Variable valve lift, timing, and duration will give you EXACTLY the same response as a throttle valve without anything there to muck up the flow. And you can bet the advantages of variable valve events will make more power everywhere along the powerband as lift/duration/rpm is all optimized for each point on the curve, infinately recalculated realtime as the engine is being driven! Twin 140MHz ECU processors will do that easily on a 12Cylinder engine to 12K rpms I believe. "DEVAS" (Since we're throwing the stuff out there...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 I was reading about that DEVAS in "Automotive Engineering" by the SAE I believe. Very cool. I think we will see a LOT of new technologies in the next 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Neat stuff. I really like the idea of an "iris" type throttle valve. -the Problem is that any I've found in a usable size are just way too damn expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Wow, I wonder if anyone has ever tried to do a DIY setup like Tony D is talking about. I know that the new 335i has a setup similair to that, really cool design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrumpetRhapsody Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 A funnel shaped Iris would probably be the most efficent and least turbulent I would think. The barrel design seems interesting, and perfect at WOT, but what about the rest of the throttle range? It seems that the further you get from WOT, pretty quickly it would be more turbulent than a butterfly design, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 If you arent at WOT I dont think you care about the turbulence as much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrumpetRhapsody Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I guess that's true from a racing standpoint, but my thoughts were that gas mileage would benefit from less turbulent airflow. (daily driver mentality, sorry!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Very true, I wasnt really thinking about gas mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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