woldson Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hey Zmanco, with my 82 and 83 in stop and go traffic I could not run a/c safely ethier, WITH the stock ZX fans. P.S. the 83 was mint, till I own it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Since it's a turbo, switching to electrics will gain you the space to run a charge pipe between the rad and motor should you decide to run an intercooler. Just some more food for thought... m1ghtymaxXx, I agree an electric fan will make it much easier, but it is totally possible to do with the stock fan still in place (old pic for contrast): Granted I'm using 2.25" tube, but it seems to me like squeezing in a 3-incher wouldn't be that much wider at all. 2.25" has just a little over half the cross-sectional area as a 3" would, so that's half the volume to pressurize (at the expense of increased drag though). ...Now i'm really getting off topic! I think you can get different fan clutches and blades. This one may sit more forward than others to clear the additional power steering and A/C belts. Electric fans are great, especially if you can get a variable speed controlled one. I noticed that when you mount them with fasteners through the radiator fins (I think most of us have done it this way) instead of a bracket, each time the fan cycles on/off you're going to get a pretty good torque. This stretches out the holes more and more over time, but I think a variable speed might eliminate some of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I initially mounted through the radiator fins, but a year later had 2 of the tubes leaking from the top. After the repair I fabricated this setup. The fans are held flush against the radiator without putting any stress on the tubes. I had to cut a little of the lower bracket for a few inches where it passes in front of the AC compressor. Without AC it wouldn't have been an issue, but without AC, I could have used the Taurus fan and saved time and $$$. BTW, the biggest drawback to this approach is the lack of a fan shroud. I suspect that's why the temp goes up in traffic with the AC on. The air is only passing over the fins directly in front of the fans. Even with 2 fans, there is still a lot of the radiator that has very little air flow over it when the car is moving slowly. Without the AC compressor there would have been enough clearance to mount the taurus fan offset to the driver's side. If you don't have AC, I'd strongly suggest you consider this approach. Plus, IIRC, the taurus is a 2 speed fan so you can set it up to run on the lower speed most of the time, and still have an option for high speed when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 P.S. the 83 was mint, till I own it. Ha! I hope that it's at least faster now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 A little. The body was perfect, every dent and srcract happened when I was not even in the car. Unloading a trailer with sand needed to use the battery out of my ZX to help the electric motor and I asked the guy it the trailer would slide forward and he said no. UMMMMM NOT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Zmanco, that is a really nice job of elegantly simple but sturdy fabrication!! You may have given me a great model to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 :rockon:Zmanco Rocks!! See, this wasn't a "worthless thread" IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 I think that given the cracks in the existing fan, I'm going to spend just a few dollars right now on replacement fan blades, and take my time searching for the best fit in an electric replacement. Probably go electric within the next year unless I keep coming up with better things to do with my $$. My measurements tell me that I have a maximum of 4.5" between radiator and the front of the water pump pulley with the blades and clutch removed. Radiator width looks like 24-25", and height of the cooling fin surface appears to be about 16". If anyone can help me with more accurate measurements of the ZX radiator, please do so - the shroud and things get in the way when trying to measure. Here's the car: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 m1ghtymaxXx, I agree an electric fan will make it much easier, but it is totally possible to do with the stock fan still in place (old pic for contrast): Granted I'm using 2.25" tube, but it seems to me like squeezing in a 3-incher wouldn't be that much wider at all. 2.25" has just a little over half the cross-sectional area as a 3" would, so that's half the volume to pressurize (at the expense of increased drag though). ...Now i'm really getting off topic! I think you can get different fan clutches and blades. This one may sit more forward than others to clear the additional power steering and A/C belts. Electric fans are great, especially if you can get a variable speed controlled one. I noticed that when you mount them with fasteners through the radiator fins (I think most of us have done it this way) instead of a bracket, each time the fan cycles on/off you're going to get a pretty good torque. This stretches out the holes more and more over time, but I think a variable speed might eliminate some of that. I can't imagine the stock fan is too effective without the shroud since it sits so far from the rad. The idea of notching the stock shroud and filling it with fiberglass or plastic crossed my mind, but i never checked if theres even enough clearance between the fan and the shroud to do that. My plan is dual 12" fans for clearance and safety. Looking in the engine bay, i'm not sure a centered 16" would fit because of the stock fan "spindle". However with duals, it allows that spindle to sit between the motors, as well as leaving space at the top of the rad for a charge pipe, and as already mentioned, will still give some cooling if one quits. My only worry is the load on the charging system. I replaced my alternator with a lifetime warranty rebuilt one last year, and voltage still dips below 12 volts (on the factory voltmeter) when its cold out and blower, wipers, headlights and amp/stereo are going. I've heard mention of using bigger gm alternators on this site, but never saw whats involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 I agree that twin fans with a gap where the water pump pulley sticks out look like the best way to go. I also like the simple mounting frame that Zmanco fabricated - I agree that using cable ties through the radiator seems to have considerable potential for damage through eventual metal fatigue caused by vibration and by the startip torque of the fan. Hmmm...having dual fans would probably reduce the torque factor, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I agree that it could be more efficient with a fan shroud. But I haven't had any cooling issues yet, so I haven't really needed to address any problem. Even on 90+ degree days I can be in stop & go traffic idling away and my temp never goes above 5/8. I think the 22"x18" core Ron Davis radiator might have something to do with it. It could be that a shrouded electric fan could actually reduce airflow through the radiator at speed if it's not running or is running full blast. It that is true, then having it totally open with a stock fan like I have isn't too bad in this regard. If I get serious, I'll use a PWM controller like BJHines is doing. I think the trick will be finding the right size low-profile shrouded dual fan setup. I barely have four inches between the radiator and the water pump pulley and I'm sure the mounting bracket will take up space too. Plus, I don't have shroud mounts like the stock radiator, so I can't do a bracket setup like Zmanco's. Flex-a-lite sells a 21.5" x 17.5" but it may not work for me since it is a singe fan style. Pilgrim brings up a good point about upgrading the alternator. 280ZX's only have a 60 amp alternator (unless you can get one from an '82 turbo, that one is 70 amps). The average-sized electric fan draws ~20 amps!! You can buy plug & play alternators that are either 105 or 120 amps. I pasted a link in BigPhil's thread about ebay alternators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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