Midnitz Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Gentlemen, I have some questions.....most relate to dimensioning and clearances. 1. I am looking for the dimension of the two constraining vertical planes.... the flange (cylinder head mating surface side) to the Turbo flange (Turbo mating surface side). I know that the larger the turbo, the smaller this dimension will be due to engine bay and steering assembly constraints. Let's assume I will use a hybrid T3/T4 turbocharger, 2. Will this further constrain the space I have to work with? 3. Does anyone have drawings for a T3 or T4 turbo? 4. Does anyone have drawings for the exhaust flange for an N42 head? Once done, I will share pics of the design and look for some feedback. For those who don't know me, my name is Rob, I live in the SF Bay Area, drive a family owned since new 76 Z, and am looking to add a turbo to a custom built rotating assembly to my N42 block and head. I am a Mechanical Engineer and have some experience on automotive engine building, cylinder head port and flowbench work. I can also perform some cfd work, Solidworks, ProE, COSMOS FEA. I love to fabricate, machining and welding parts and just tweak things until they are optimized. I look forward to sharing info and having fun with my engine build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnitz Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 Cmon guys.... Thus far, I have the exhaust flange and the rectangular to to round primary tubes modeled in 3D.... Today, I started to model the front most primary exh tube, I can get a bend radius as tight as 1.625 (centerline to bend pivot), I also incorporated the 45 degree transition for that tube to make it horizontal and start its run towards the rear. My goal is to combine the 6 tubes into 4 inlets that run straight into the turbo flange spacer. So....the last piece of info I need is the turbo flange to cylinder head dimension.... If you guys helped, I wouldn't rule out sharing info, heck I may just build a few extras and ask for the cost of material. Anyone? Next post will have Jpeg of the solidmodel. I will also post CFD results to show how this baby flows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Gentlemen, I have some questions.....most relate to dimensioning and clearances. 1. I am looking for the dimension of the two constraining vertical planes.... the flange (cylinder head mating surface side) to the Turbo flange (Turbo mating surface side). Those two planes aren't parallel. The turbo flange angles down maybe 30 degrees from vertical. The 3"x5" flange is centered on the runner #5. The perpendicular dimension from the head flange to the bottom of the turbo flange is 3", and to the top is 4" I suspected you might be an engineer with the replies you've given. If what I said didn't make sense, I can probably mock up a quick CAD model in Inventor. -Hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Why does the turbo have to be in the stock location?? I could think of better places. Many have. Monzter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukaniuk Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I don't have a custom manifold or anything but I do have an L28 with a T3/T04 in a 260 that I could measure up dimensions for you. So....the last piece of info I need is the turbo flange to cylinder head dimension.... Do you mean the horizontal distance from the head to the turbo in its stock location? ie. width of manifold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnitz Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 Hughdogz, What you stated indeed makes sense.....I made the changes to the reference geometry plane.... I probably will not center the flange on runner #5, it will probably center on in between 4 and 5 to even the length of the primary tubes....and tilt the flange another 5-10 degrees. I will be building this using tig-welded stainless tube I'll keep you guys filled in.... I will perform a mockup using the T3/T4 to help guide me with constraints. I'll provide pics of this process as well. Thus far, the rotating assy has received lightening treatment and knife-edging as well as the cryo treatment. -Planned are Pauter "polished" ultra-lightweight billet rods. http://www.pauter.com -Slightly Dished CP Forged aluminum alloy pistons with dry-film coated skirts. -Ferrea under-cut stainless valves with dry film lube coated valve stems. -CNC machined bulkheads on engine block to remove stress risers. -Main Cap stud girdle -lightweight billet flywheel -BW T5 trans -Upgrade to R200 LSD What do you folks think of Haltech ECUs? I want a coil pack per cyl setup. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffp Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 You need to take a look at the EURO turbo header. Nissan did a very good job on that part, and I will guarantee you it will make at least 600hp from that part. I have looked at a number of headers for the L28, all of them are costly, and various configurations, all very costly. I don't recommend moving the turbo flange. You will have problems created in the steering and other things like the pcv valve to mane two. Sure the setup is not ideal, and I am not all together convienced you can make much improvement, but it is the most efficient use of the header. Going custom is cool, but in this case not necessary. I am running a log style header from South Flordia Performance and what a nightmare that has turned out to be. I had to rework the part three times to get it to work. Get a EURO header and you will not be sorry you did, but if you want to go custom, then copy the design and incorporate a waste gate flange for the Tial 44mm wastegate. The bigger the better on the wastegate I say. You want to be able to vent enough exhaust to maintain stock boost. The Tial 44mm will flow a bit better then the Tial 46mm (porsch gate) I can almost run stock boost levels with the 46mm gate, but I do get a little creep from 5K to 7K because the gate is a little small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnitz Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 re: Sure the setup is not ideal, and I am not all together convienced you can make much improvement, but it is the most efficient use of the header. Going custom is cool, but in this case not necessary. I am running a log style header from South Flordia Performance and what a nightmare that has turned out to be. I had to rework the part three times to get it to work. ------------------------------------- JeffP, You are right, nissans L28T manifold is far from optimal, it is very inefficient....exhaust pulses being shot into the primaries of other exhaust ports...Using only the ambient pressurization of the manifold to engage the turbine.... The turbo flange position WRT exh primaries needs to encourage directional orientation of exh pulses, this prevents exh pulse reversion (that is present in the stock manifold), this will make the turbo we choose more sensitive to exhaust pulses, not just ambient manifold pressurization....by implimenting this, we can help mitigate turbo lag and the over saturation of thermal flux. The only problem I see here is we will have to use thermal barrier coatings further down the exhaust pipes... What I intend to do: 1. work with the packaging clearances Nissan has given us.... 2. Reroute the PCV from the valve cover to TB hose....to valve cover to air cleaner tube bung (prior to the turbo) 3. Design and make the header as directional as possible 4. Tap the wastegate into the collector as closely to a Y pipe config as possible on both sides. With multiple iterations of CFD studies, I am CONFIDENT I can improve upon what is out there. The difference is I am in it for the enthusiasm....not to make a buck...so time is not an issue for me. One more thing, I will not be running stock boost pressure. I plan on running 16 psi, perhaps 18. My target is 400bhp and 325-350 lb ft of torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnitz Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 here is a small pic of my progress....I will attach better pics in the future...as time is short... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozconnection Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Does this help?? I think Trust in Japan made these. Dunno if they still do? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Any updates on this endeavor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 There's been an ongoing discussion about having a turbo header mass produced in the Group Buy forum for about as long as this post has been around: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=132994 Nigel '73 240ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 http://forums.hybridz.org/showpost.php?p=898364&postcount=162 See if this helps any. If you want different measurments let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnitz Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 I have the primaries turning downward now and heading for convergence towards the flange boundries...I will post more pics later... got a massive project to work on right now... Busy busy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnitz Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Thanks JSM! My dims will be a bit different....the turbo flange will be centered a bit more towards the front....to create clerance for the steering shaft. I may create a foam mockup of the header/turbo setup....and see how it all fits under the manifold. I'll be posting pics as I go.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Thanks JSM! My dims will be a bit different....the turbo flange will be centered a bit more towards the front....to create clerance for the steering shaft. I may create a foam mockup of the header/turbo setup....and see how it all fits under the manifold. I'll be posting pics as I go.... Good, I agree w/ moving it forward a little. Helps w/ straightening out the exahaust a little too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnitz Posted September 6, 2008 Author Share Posted September 6, 2008 Ok, I have finished the detailed drawing for the flange....and because I have an N42 head I will start with a rectangular shaped port flange. 0.375in thick. I will have it water jet cut for tighter tolerances (less interference issues). I love Mastercam... I'll take pics of the cutting process and upload as soon as practical. I will also make a copy of the solidworks file and make a round port design for you round port lovers. I've been seeing some good examples of what to do and what NOT TO DO. Keep the feedback coming, hang in there...next week is going to be quite a bugger for me...so no progress next week. Material choice will be a low-carbon steel alloy and once weldment is completed, a prep and coating of titanium-ceramic thermal barrier coating to round things out. So far, it looks like cost for this thing will be pricey when compared to regular off the shelf headers for a V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.