Guest Anonymous Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 Hi Folks, I am new to the board and just got done reading EXTENSIVE previous posts on the R200 vs. R180 debate. I have a 73 240z with an LT1 from a 94 Firebird warmed over (figure 350hp 350ft-lbs). with stock Auto overdrive. So not HUGE but its all grins when u mash the pedal. While doing a nice burnout after puttin on new P215/60R15's on the rear I let up and turned a corner and heard a nice clunk clunk ping!. Car drove fine all the way home. Jacked up the rear to check it out, and the rear was LOCKED SOLID. Drained the oil and it wasn't too bad, not hot or metalic looking. Its a wee bit hard to turn but she side steps a bit more when doing those high power starts and 1-2 shifts. MY question, I have a spare R200 laying aound. Do I change it and hope it doesn't grenade again? Weld up my new one? OR get LSD? OR get a Dana 44 carrier and do some machine work... (I am a mechanical engineer, this doesn't scare me hehe). WILL the other R200 grenade?? Thanks all!! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyMIz Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 I've heard they take a good beating.I haven't had troubles with mine,but i'm not making 350hp.Mine needs some work it clunks and lots of play but it takes everything i throw at it and smiles and asks for more.Figure the half shafts would go before the rear.I'm not an expert like some of these guys on here but they should handle that and then some.If i'm wrong guys let me know i think i'll be in the same place soon and will need the info anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 With 215 tires, you should be able to keep a decent R200 under the car. I'd give the R200 another shot. I was boiling the tires off mine (315/35ZR17) last weekend just for grins for the "out of towners", and was a bit concerned during the run, but it still works just great (and this is the same rear end I raced with). There are a lot of R200 success stories out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 All hearsay, but what I've read/heard is that the R200 ring and pinion is plenty strong. It's the spider gears and shaft that break, etc. And a single wheeled burnout puts alot of torque and rpm through those spider gears. I say put the other (good?) R200 in and stay away from the tire frying exhibitions. Use Amsoil, Redline, or Royal Purple Synthetic fluid of the right type (GL-5) and weight (dunno - 85W90?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 Ditto on what the consensus is for the R200: they are plenty strong and the half shafts are the first thing to go if anything. You can use a good product like Redline Shockproof oil for the diff. I'm surprised that you fragged the diff A lot of guys on the forum drag race with an open R200 and have no problems. Hmmm. Some guys like Owen and Mark are going to an R230 from a Q45. Owen is still working on his and Mark's has been up and running. Figure on some engineering to make everything fir. The R200 is a no-brainer and is good to go. Go for it. Davy [ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: DavyZ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 You didn't really mention if your 73 had allready been converted to R200 or not... Is it the stock R180 you toasted, or a R200 that was previously swapped in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 i did covert to R200 but I wasn't sure if it was any good to start. seemed tight and good but how can u tell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 Andy, sorry to hear about your breakage. The stories vary wildly with how much abuse the R-200 can take. I can testify to hard launches with almost 500lb/ft of torque and 275 DRs and others have had breakage with the L6. Remember, when you install a used R-200, it could be as much as 26 yrs old with an unknown history. It is the luck of the draw. If you find one that was not abused (more from lack of maintenance) it can take a lot. However, as previously stated, open-diff wheelspins and wheelhop will contribute to their demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 What year was your r200 out of? If it is a later r200 (82 and up) is has the 12mm bolts and you can get a limited slip from Reider Racing. If it is earlier it has 10mm ring gear bolts, but since you don't mind machining, you should be able to make some sleeves for the smaller bolts. The easiest way to test if the r200 is within spec is to get a dial indicator and magnetic base. Set these up on back of diff with cover removed. With indicator touching ring gear, and backlash taken out of gear set (twist the pinion until loaded)turn the pinion ever so slightly back and forth checking the indicator for total movement. Backlash should be .0051-.0071 (Nissan '78 service manual) Typical hypoid gear axle backlash is .003-.008 but I have set up differentils with .000 back lash for drag race only setups. Pete is right, pegleg drive is extremely hard on spider and side gears as well as spider gear shaft. The diff gears are designed for movement to account for turns, but not high speed differential action such as high power wheel spin which quickly wears the inside of the spiders and grooves the spider shaft increasing clearance, and BOOM. An L87-89 300zx clutch type turbo LSD will work with your stub axles, but they are getting harder and harder to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 Heh, someone needs to puzzle out the R230 swap once and for all and offer up either plans or parts to make it a bolt-on affair. Stronger and more available with gear ratios that the L6 guys would love.... Ross, you want a new business idea there's one for ya' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 Ross, I agree with BLKMGK - the R230 swap could use a complete documentation AND it'd be great if custom mounts were offered as well. The big thing is the halfshafts. This is where a group buy would be very helpful. If you're willing to engineer this swap for sale, I'd think you'd have a decent number of takers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 quote ..someone needs to puzzle out the R230 ...offer up....a bolt-on affair.... Ross, you want a new business idea there's one for ya' Thanks ! Anyone want to go on design retainer? I'm still TOTALLY open to all new ideas but immediate 'leisure' time is occupied with current ideas. Logistics on coatings for rear caliper brackets/rotors/production, 11" bolt on killer front upgrade , amongst others on the backburners waiting for Z/designers (Z guys cause then parts can trade for service/no $ for actual money now...with the research efforts on this forum their are many prime candidates). PSS just learning about water jetting which opens up some new arenas in fabrication to myself. It can do up to 6" thick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 So... shafts, adapters, and diff mount were all custom. Yup, that's what I'd expect to find in a kit then The info is out there for sure but it's not as well documented as say the 3.7 LSD swap. That one is pretty dead solid documented and doesn't require custom much of anything. I wish the R230 were that simple but obviously it's not, hence the demand for a kit. Something put together by someone who has tested and knows that it fits right. I don't know what a reasonable price would be but folks should take into consideration what an LSD R200 costs these days if you can find it (as much as $500!) vs an R230 that falls out of lot's more cars. Plus you get a diff that's years newer and probably in better shape, other than potentially weight where's the downside? You get CVs with that swap? If so terrific and I'll bet that new replacement parts for them can be found too! Lot's of good reasons to consider the R230 but most of us aren't engineers, don't have access to machine facilities, and aren't willing to experiment with expensive one-off components. Yup, that's a swap who's demand probably rates right up there behind rear disk brakes IMO. P.S. Upload those picstech writeup. I'd love to see it and plan for the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 Yup, pretty much custom everything, don't forget the rear brace and the redrilling of the mustache bars too! The reason I went with the R230 is that I couldn't find an R200 LSD anywhere for under $400. My R230 was $275 + 4 shafts. If someone wants to build a kit I and maybe Mark can provide info, someone else here was doing this too...??? I don't have access to machines or lathes or anything, just my welder, grinder, sawzall, and some titanium drill bits :-)I guess that's why it took me so long to do this. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 quote: If someone wants to build a kit I and maybe Mark can provide info, someone else here was doing this too...??? I wouldn't mind looking at the details that a kit would require and see if it fits the resources available to me if noone else is already walking that path. I'm already sourcing enough 'custom' stuff that it might be complementery to my own ongoing efforts underway. What's the diff itself weigh? I have a reasonable source for them but have never looked into that. Is the 240sx rear diff stronger than an R200 or friendly ratios available? It's a nice suspension with rear steer that might be a possibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 heres my r200 sucess story. the first year i had the z, i made it a point to scorch tires right when it got warm, and lay posi up the block, once a day.... mix that up with incidents that make me the KING of import racing, and i spun that bad boy a million mother grabbin times, what happended?? broke mustache bar, front mount, driveshaft bolts, and the piece that ties the control arms together, but the R200 LIVES! and doenst howl or anything, believe me, that thing is tough!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 quote: Originally posted by FAIRLADY 327: ... but the R200 LIVES! and doenst howl or anything, believe me, that thing is tough!!!! It seems the whole attraction with the R230 is it's initial price. I think it might be far more attractive to have an R200 LSD package available with a reider posi and bushings so you can have any of the common 3.54-3.9 ratios installed. The custom R230 parts can't be too cheap? I'm sure it's a great piece but I have a hard time justifying it. Maybe once someone's posted a total package/effort/costs involved it might be clearer to me. If I needed one tomorrow I"d be getting a reider unit and making those bushings and having a good gear shop install them. EVERY major city has at least one top notch gear shop. R200's are available quite easily around here, I've heard they're not so common elsewhere. Only if the reider setup became popular would I then start cracking apart used R200's to salvage gears only (as most would have their own donor R200 I'd guess) to help out with that end. Till then I know they're getting tossed out in yards in BC. Removes all those custom parts that are hard to service/replace quickly if ever needed. comments?? [ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: Ross C ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 I think anohter attraction to the R230 is it's gear ratios. I think they may be high for a V8 but they're attractive to the L6 crowd. It's also a VISCOUS LSD that has no clutches to wear. Yeah, the Reider is nice but it's BIG BUX! Price is an issue but right now we don't know what the R230 custom parts cost so getting too excited about cost is early yet. If it's a CV swap as well then those custom parts, which might be super beefy, become just that more attractive. I'd take custom parts if they were strong enough that breaking them wasn't a worry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 i personally wont do the r230, ive got a lot of faith in the r200, and they grow on trees here in the B-A-Y A-R-E-A. the ratios are also way too numerically high to run anything less than the t56 or an all out dragster. for an l28, i really agree in that move, if im swapping, its a ford 9" cause the nhra mandates it! corvette irs, comes with discs five lugs and very strong as well, and would probably cost a little less than that r230, WITH YOUR CHOICE OF RATIOS...... just my thoughts Leonard "break it before you upgrade it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 Mark's already provided the info for the R230 swap...I just followed what he did and mine is in now. Car is still not running though. I do have documentation and pictures, just haven't uploaded them yet. The only custom things are the shafts, adapters, and diff mount. The diff mount is the only thing I was able to do myself. Oh, driveshaft is custom too. I'm suck at welding and I'm not an engineer, so anyone can do this Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.