Dyno Runs - So I was wrong about my car....

[ktm]

I decided to hit a Dynojet before I leave later tonight on my two week vacation. I always wondered what my car is putting down to the ground now, especially since I've added methanol injection.

 

I am still tuning and the runs show it. You can see where I am misfiring/hesitating in the runs. I kept pulling fuel and it was getting better, with the last run the best. I was still hesitating some, but not nearly as bad.

 

I will say that I was NOT running methanol these runs but rather ethanol. I ran out of methanol yesterday and supplemented it with ethanol. I know I can make more power with methanol, maybe even hit the big 4.

 

So far I am pulling 20%!! of my primary fuel map when injecting ethanol, as well as adding 5 degrees of timing from 2 psi up to 20 psi. The operator did not detect any signs of knock while running. I am also running on a 95 Octane blend (California Craptane 91 plus 100 octane)

 

I am running 20 psi, but you can see that I am bleeding off to 15 psi. The last run I held up to 17 psi. The operator and I think this is caused in part by the rich mix and the hesitating. I have a GM type boost control solenoid that is set to drop duty cycle with RPMs to counter the bleed-off, but it is not apparently effective right now.

 

Lastly, the ONLY thing I did between runs was pull fuel across my map under boost (when injecting methanol). I gained 10 wft-lbs and 10 whp

by simply pulling fuel.

 

Onto the runs. I apologize for the large picture, but you can compare all three runs side-by-side this way.

 

[TrumpetRhapsody]

Congrats man! Inspires me to get mine going.

 

Keep tuning and take another run!

[Challenger]

Looks good but I was thinking run 2 would be the best. Im thinking you need to be looking at area under the curve rather than the very peak number. 2 looks to be a little flatter at only a few hp and ft.lbs less. But who knows..

[ktm]

Run three is the best. The problem is that that torque scale on the right changes between run 2 and run 3. On Run 2, the scale goes up to 400; on run 3 the scale goes up to 500. They both fall off the same; as a matter of fact, run 3 is a bit flatter since I am able to hold 1.5 psi more boost at the higher RPMs, thus helping the curve not to fall off as fast.

[TrumpetRhapsody]

I wondered why the torque was so "low" on the third run. Didn't want to ask a stupid question though

[wheelman]

Shouldn't the HP and torque curves cross at 5250 rpms on runs 1 and 2?

The scales for both measreuments are the same, if they were different as in run 3 then I understand.

 

Wheelman

[Clifton]

Shouldn't the HP and torque curves cross at 5250 rpms on runs 1 and 2?

The scales for both measreuments are the same, if they were different as in run 3 then I understand.

 

Wheelman

 

the torque scale starts at 100 and ensat 400. The HP sacle starts at 0 and ebds at 400. They don't cross on the graph but they still are the same at 5250 and would cross if the scale started at the same.

 

 

ktm, what your timing at peak torque and HP?

[ktm]

Clifton, my timing at peak torque and horsepower is around 20-21 degrees in run 3 at 22 psi. I just noticed that my base timing is 15 degrees for 23 psi (I set my upper boost level base timing a bit retarded for tuning). I added in 5 degrees across the board when injecting methanol.

 

My base timing for 19.5 psi is 18 degrees to which I added 5 degrees as well through a trim table.

 

I clearly left power on the table. I originally set this table up for California 91 which is more similar to 89 in the rest of the country.

[Clifton]

I think I'm around 20 or 22* at 22 psi ( haven't looked in a while). Always on 100+ octane though. I was just curious what others run for timing on turbo L's.

[TimZ]

Congrats on the numbers!

 

One thing you want to keep track of when you start pulling fuel from the map while at the dyno is your manifold air temp (MAT) - did you happen to log it, and is your fuel injection compensating for MAT?

 

The reason I mention this is that it's really common for the MAT to run significantly higher on the dyno than it does on the street, due to the difficulty of getting the same amount of air through your intercooler. If this is not being compensated for, you will end up running 1-2 points richer on the dyno. If you pull fuel from your map to correct this while on the dyno and then go back out on the street, you could end up 1-2 points too lean, which is not good:shock:

[ktm]

Tim, thanks for the heads up regarding MAT's. I did not log my MAT, but I do have my IAT sensor hooked up to my Innovate LMA-3, so I can log it during my next session. However, saying that, I am injecting methanol which dramatically reduces IAT/MATs (ambient is, say, 33 degrees C, typical IAT without meth is 38 to 39 degrees C, and with meth my IATs will routinely be 18 to 20 degrees C).

 

I had significant downtime between the runs and the intercooler did not get heatsoaked. Your point about the IAT compensation is very well taken. I am going to hit a mustang dyno when I get back from my vacation to turn out the waves as well as increase my driveability. I will be sure to keep an eye out for MATs and actual injector pulse width used.

[slownrusty]

Inspiring Bo! Great numbers and you are knocking on the 400s! Which is an incredible feat. So you can go on your vacation and rest easy?

 

Regards - Yasin

[Six_Shooter]

Specs on what is done to the engine? turbo, parts, etc? If you have a thread, I would be interested to peruse that.

[TimZ]

Tim, thanks for the heads up regarding MAT's. I did not log my MAT, but I do have my IAT sensor hooked up to my Innovate LMA-3, so I can log it during my next session. However, saying that, I am injecting methanol which dramatically reduces IAT/MATs (ambient is, say, 33 degrees C, typical IAT without meth is 38 to 39 degrees C, and with meth my IATs will routinely be 18 to 20 degrees C).

 

I had significant downtime between the runs and the intercooler did not get heatsoaked. Your point about the IAT compensation is very well taken. I am going to hit a mustang dyno when I get back from my vacation to turn out the waves as well as increase my driveability. I will be sure to keep an eye out for MATs and actual injector pulse width used.

 

That's a good idea - I'd also suggest getting some measurements for similar pulls on the street, just to get an idea of how much your MAT climbs normally during a 3rd or 4th gear pull, similar to what you would do on the dyno (assuming you can find someplace to do that safely and without getting arrested ). What I have found is that even when you let things stabilize between runs (a MUST for consistent pulls), the temps climb at a much higher rate than normal for any given run when you are on the dyno.

[ktm]

Six Shooter, I have a thread, but I need to update it and get in touch with an admin to see if I can clean up the first post.

 

The engine specs are surprising - stock. It's a stock P90a (yes, hydraulic lifters) head, stock block, stock pistons, rods, etc. I have a N42 intake that is NOT port matched nor ported itself save for the throttle body area. I am running a 240sx throttle body as well.

 

The injectors are Supra 7MGTE 440 cc/min injectors that were flow tested at 503 cc/min @43.5 psi (all within 1cc/min of each other). The turbo is a Garrett T03/04E 50 trim (0.63 A/R on the hotside).

 

I am running a singl 700 cc/min FJO Racing methanol injector, FJO Racing pump, and FJO Racing pressure sender. The injector is controlled by my Wolf EMS and the pressure sender is my failsafe trigger. I am replacing 20%+ of my primary fuel under boost with 100% methanol. At this time my timing is 20 to 22 degrees at 22 psi (that is the range that bounds the load cell), which is 5 degrees over my pump only timing.

 

My injection and ignition setup is full sequential. I am pulling 3 degrees of timing in cylinders 5 and 6 since these two are the first to detonate.

 

I have left a safe amount of torque and horsepower on the table. The wavy dyno plots are indicative of misfires which can be felt by a gentle surging. I am also faced with boost bleed-off as can be seen in the plots. I figure I have a safe 400ish ft-lbs and at least 20 to 30 hp I can realize once I get these issues sorted out.

[Six_Shooter]

Sweet, that's pretty much what I wanted to hear.

 

I'll be running an F54/P90 combo, N47 intake, with very little bit of work, shooting for around the same boost pressure, and my power goals are close to what you have done.