deja Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I needed new inner tie rods. It is actually cheaper to get a new rack with inner tie rods than buying the inner and outer as a set. I installed the rack with new poly bushings and had the front end aligned. This has cured my steering wheel shaing I had over 60 MPH. All seemed good except there is a lot of play in the steering wheel. I took the car to a friends this morning so he could help with the rack play adjustment as per the shop manual. But we noticed the whole rack is moving about 1/8" or more right and left when you turn the wheel. I checked the 4 bolts holding the rack on and they are tight as they can get. What is that muffler clamp thing on the rack supposed to do? The old rack had a rubber pad on the bottom of the clamp but the new one does not. The bushing don't seem to take up the entire space on the rack, am I missing something or is it possible I have the wrong bushings? I pulled it all apart this afternoon, twice, and if anything its worse now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted August 16, 2008 Administrators Share Posted August 16, 2008 I needed new inner tie rods. It is actually cheaper to get a new rack with inner tie rods than buying the inner and outer as a set.I installed the rack with new poly bushings and had the front end aligned. This has cured my steering wheel shaing I had over 60 MPH. All seemed good except there is a lot of play in the steering wheel. I took the car to a friends this morning so he could help with the rack play adjustment as per the shop manual. But we noticed the whole rack is moving about 1/8" or more right and left when you turn the wheel. I checked the 4 bolts holding the rack on and they are tight as they can get. What is that muffler clamp thing on the rack supposed to do? The old rack had a rubber pad on the bottom of the clamp but the new one does not. The bushing don't seem to take up the entire space on the rack, am I missing something or is it possible I have the wrong bushings? I pulled it all apart this afternoon, twice, and if anything its worse now. Deja, There is a difference between the 240-Z and 260/280-Z rack bushings. Be sure you are using the appropriate bushings for your particular rack. The racks are interchangeable between cars and sometimes are swapped out. The bushings must match the rack itself, not necessarily the car as the cross-member mounts are the same size/config on all S-30's. The 240-Z Rack has a cast aluminum housing that houses the pinion gear and the drivers side bushing. 260/280-Z rack has a cast iron housing that houses the pinion gear and driver side bushing. If the rack is covered in dirt, grime, grease, paint etc, a magnet is the easiest to distinguish between the two. Also, the 240 rack is just a tad quicker ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagster Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Yep, they are different in the diameter where the bushings go. I have been through that one on the early and later cars. We used to use some old seatbelt strapping as a cheap fix for looseness. Also, the old rubber connector farther up on the steering column can be changed out. This is an often overlooked item and can give some weird sensations in the steering too. Don't overlook loose wheel bearings, worn out ball joints and tie rod ends. Old cars need attention in these areas. All of them will cause sloppiness in the steering. Of course, if the rack is worn out........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted August 16, 2008 Author Share Posted August 16, 2008 The rack is new (rebuilt) its suppoed to be a RACK & PINION, 1973-1978 NISSAN 260Z / 280Z, I stressed several times that my car is a 1977 280Z. Everythg is steel. The bushings are again supposed to be Datsun 260z,280z Urethane Steering Rack Bushings. But either of these could be wrong. Are the 280Z bushings wider than the 240Z ones? Unfortunatley I already threw away my old ones and sent the rack back as a core. Looks like I should try to find some bushings local. Deja,There is a difference between the 240-Z and 260/280-Z rack bushings. Be sure you are using the appropriate bushings for your particular rack. The racks are interchangeable between cars. The 240-Z Rack has a cast aluminum housing that houses the pinion gear and the drivers side bushing. 260/280-Z rack has a cast iron housing that houses the pinion gear and driver side bushing. If the rack is covered in dirt, grime, grease, paint etc, a magnet is the easiest to distinguish between the two. Also, the 240 rack is just a tad quicker ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMWHYR0HEN Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I noticed the same problem. I'm using energy poly rack bushings on my '71. Does anybody make solid bushings? I was considering making brackets to hold the rack solid to the X member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 I heard that! My buddy said "Let me get my welder out, I'll fix it"! A solid mount would probably result in a lot of vibration though, and this is a street car. I orderd rubber mounts from Black Dragon, hopefully they will be correct and will fix this. Unfortunately I will probably need another $74 front end alignment. I noticed the same problem. I'm using energy poly rack bushings on my '71. Does anybody make solid bushings? I was considering making brackets to hold the rack solid to the X member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 DIY front end alignments. All you need is a friend, a tape measure, a couple of wrenches, and a few test drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage42 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 I went with the poly bushings from MSA. There are some pics, one of the 240 rack with the aluminum housing and the differences between the rack bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 I went with the poly bushings from MSA. There are some pics, one of the 240 rack with the aluminum housing and the differences between the rack bushings. I have a280Z rack for sure. I measured the bushings I have and they are about 1 3/16" thick. Any idea what the thickness of the 240Z vs the 2980Z should be? I have ordered new 280Z bushings from Black Dragon. They should be here when I get back in town next Tuesday abd we'll attempt this again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strotter Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 This was covered some time ago here. Scroll down to post #34. My impression at the time was that the 240 bushings were too narrow, the 280 too wide. Also, some research (post 46, same thread) showed that this problem is not new, nor has it only to do with any particular brand: From post #46, Ok, I've found a reference I've been remembering, but couldn't place; In Wick Humble's "How to Restore Your Datsun Z-Car", he mentions the bushings and the steering rack: on page 88, he talks about the bushings themselves, "Many drivers complained the 240Z's bushings allowed too much lateral steering-box movement, especially as the rubber aged. This was corrected by *shimming* and stiffer replacement bushings" (My emphasis). [...] Elsewhere, there's a mention of the little "keeper" [mentioned] earlier. It's actually called a "Rack Stopper", and it's installation is mentioned on page 90 of the same book: "Rack Stopper - Install the little stabilizer that fastened to the steering-gear housing. Load the rubber bumper firmly against the surface of the suspension crossmember. Tighten the Nylon locknuts. Reference the marks you made to align it to the gear." Now, I'm wondering just how critical the angular alignment of the steering rack really is: perhaps there's something to do here regarding hard-to-track-down vibration and vague steering? I ended up making some spacers: I fabricated a spacer out of some 20 gauge steel sheet - just a rectangle long enough to fit around the periphery of the outside of the upper bushing, and wide enough to form a saddle for it on either side - perhaps 4" x 2 1/2" (who measures?). Made cuts into both sides about 1/2" deep every 1/4", bent the whole assembly so that it mated to the outside of the bushing, reassembled and tightened it down. Voila, no more wiggly rack. Note that I only did this for the driver's side - the passenger side was snug as a bug in a rug, no need to fix what wasn't broken. Simple fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted August 20, 2008 Author Share Posted August 20, 2008 Thanks, that interesting. My "stopper" doesn't have that rubber bumper on it, figures. I'll have to see what I can come up with for that. If the new bushings don't fix this I guess I'll make some spacers. This was covered some time ago here. Scroll down to post #34. My impression at the time was that the 240 bushings were too narrow, the 280 too wide. Also, some research (post 46, same thread) showed that this problem is not new, nor has it only to do with any particular brand: From post #46, I ended up making some spacers: Simple fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 Sorry this took so long to post my "fix" but I had other issues with this rack and had to get a replacement. Something went terribly wrong with the LH inner tie rod or the steering box. Suddenly the left wheel started violently vibrating. Fortunately this was in the neighborhood so no real damage to the car and I was able to get it home. The result is I got a replacement rack. To "fix" that rack movement problem I made some spacers from 20 gauge steel and welded the on each side of both bushing flanges on the rack. I only needed to add a spacer to one side of the bushing on the steering box side. The bushings fit very tightly now and the rack movement is gone. I really don't understand why Datsun made these fit so loosely. Anyway I'm back on the road, vibration free and the steering in tight and as true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strotter Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Nice fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMWHYR0HEN Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I don't know who's at fault about the poor tolerances.. either Nissan or the bushing company but that's an easy way to solve the problem. Nice fix, I think i'm gonna try it. By the way you know you can't fuse aluminum and steel right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 I have a 280Z, the whole rack is steel. I don't know who's at fault about the poor tolerances.. either Nissan or the bushing company but that's an easy way to solve the problem. Nice fix, I think i'm gonna try it. By the way you know you can't fuse aluminum and steel right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMWHYR0HEN Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I welded some 16 gauge steel onto the crossmember. There was about a 16th of an inch gap on both sides of the bushing when it was on the crossmember. I laid the metal down to the top and bent down the overlapping edge and welded it to the sides. The rack now sits really tight on the X-member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustyfriend Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 not to hijack, but has anyone tried putting on new bushings without boiling them? i didn't know to boil them and i tried putting them on for 8 hours! i finally heard someone say to boil them and these puppies went on in under 5 minutes total...amazing. new rack bushings are a great feeling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 Are you talking about the rack bushings? I didn't have any issues getting these on, they are a 2 piece bushing, slip right on. Too easy which is what my problem was. not to hijack, but has anyone tried putting on new bushings without boiling them? i didn't know to boil them and i tried putting them on for 8 hours! i finally heard someone say to boil them and these puppies went on in under 5 minutes total...amazing. new rack bushings are a great feeling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustyfriend Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 each bushing was two pieces? that's odd....mine were as pictured above; one piece with a slit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryb Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 But what lead you to boil them? I dont recall having to do that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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