*New* Z project!

[Oddmanout84]

Ah yes, that's the link I followed when I did my brake install. Very helpful. I think my car must be "special" though because towards the end of the install I have a hard time finding parallels between the two. Maybe its because I have a 280Z instead of an earlier model. Both of the braided lines I have here are about exactly the same size, neither long enough to snake out of the wheelwell and under the car like yours seem to on one side. And crossing the E-brake cables FOUR times?!? The cable looks like a twizzler now, but at least the length is right. It worries me... I wonder why no one else had these issues before...

[Pete Sprenger]

Wow, I didn't know that there was an actual link to my site. That is kind of cool!

 

I think Ross is great. He offers high quality parts and his customer service is second to none in my experience, but my 280ZX CV shaft conversion kit did contain some incorrect bolts. I don't recognize some of the parts you have pictured above, but I am not familiar with a 280Z braking system either. Is it possible you didn't get the correct parts?

[Oddmanout84]

I think its definitely possible that I received some "incorrect" parts. Its really hard to say though. The kit is designed to fit 240Z-280Z, but there are quite a few differences between the two and a half (I consider the 260 inbetween) models. I think that this is the weakness in the kits, because with the upgrades over the year a few things changed between the models.

[Oddmanout84]

Got my brake fittings in from Summit today. Guess what? They solved the problem with flying colors. The fittings sealed perfectly and I was able to bleed the brake system without a quibble. So... after bleeding the brakes, I decided to test drive the Z. Good thing it was just up and down the driveway, because driving in the dark with no headlights is scary!! Everything is working great now, although there is a bit of valvetrain noise and the engine does not like to be pushed beyond idling when its cold.

 

So, I celebrated with a glass of Jim Beam (I'm out of Captain Morgan) and that was that. Still have a lot of work to do, but at least I've had physical proof of progress!

[Daeron]

.....driving in the dark with no headlights is scary!!

 

Afraid of the boogeyman? I call that "stealth mode."

[Oddmanout84]

Stealth is all fun until one of those evil trees jumps out and runs into you.

[Oddmanout84]

Since I started this project in August, I've had an early ZX turbo L6 sitting in my garage. When I was just starting to undertake this "labor of love" in doing a performance resto on my Z, the prospect of a turbocharged engine swap excited me. So much so that I went through great pains to find one locally, which cost me $800 because it had to be removed from a donor car by the man who helped me find it. Although the motor looks to be mechanically sound from when I partially disassembled it, the PO appeared to have tried a half-attempted rebuild. He could not get the motor to run afterwords, and hence the car sat, and subsequently was sold. The problem was likely electrical.

 

I received almost everything, wiring harness and all, except for the computer (MIA) and the crank angle sensor. The car was auto, so there was no clutch/flywheel included. Other than that, I was pleased.

 

Months have gone by, and the motor is still sitting in the same spot in my garage, untouched save for the various extremities that I removed and set aside so I could remove the head from the block. Oh, I guess I forgot the one thing that was screwed up. Some goober crossthreaded the #1 spark plug. Not incredibly terrible. But as my project has progressed, all I can do every time I look at, step over, or touch the motor when I have to move something near it, is get an overwhelming sense of regret. If anything, it will be a long time before I even attempt to swap it into my Z. The fact that I just got the original equipment running has been an odyssey in itself, I don't even want to think about breaking everything again. That and fixing the rest of the car has become rather... costly. Add to that the fact that I'd want to FULLY rebuild the turbo motor and do everything right, and the money + time keeps adding up.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still love the idea of turboing my car, its just with everything else that's piling up its pushing that endeavor further and further back in line. I'm having difficulty deciding now; do I sell the motor and get something later down the road? Or do I sit on it for a later time, maybe using some of the parts as spares in the mean time?

 

As such I flatly refuse to display any sort of HybridZ sticker or emblem on my car until said named swap is completed. It just seems wrong to do so otherwise. Taking that further, maybe my car shouldn't even be posted on this forum... yet.

 

I'm at a loss. My overzealousness at the conception of this project got the better of me. I'm not going to post this in the vendor forum yet (due to my current indecision), but if I get any worthy offers for local pickup, I may just give in and sell it, and find something else down the road...

[Pharaohabq]

Wow, sounds like a case of Auto-depression. Hey buck up, little camper, it's not so bad. I think you should hold onto your motor, and later plan on putting it in. There's nothing worse than having one, then getting rid of it, then finding out you can't easilly get another one for anywhere close to what you sold the old one for or in as similar condition. besides you've waited this long...

 

I totally understand the cash flow issues. (my wife doesn't understand why I want to spend $$$ to fix up a 30 yr old S30, when I have a perfectly good Z32 I drive everyday, not to mention the amount I still need to spend to make it a happy S30)

 

Maybe you just need to focus a little more. Take a step back, look at the car, and the engine not as a whole, but as a series of little projects that each lead into another. Maybe make a list, a point to get started with that you can do without a lot of costs, just time spent. Then go from there to the next step and so on. It'll give you a sense of accomplishment and progress when you're crossing stuff off the list. before you know it you'll have that turbo installed and cookin' down the highway. Though you might put the headlights a little higher on the list.

 

Phar

[Oddmanout84]

Yeah... I think the past few days of cleaning up mouse feces after I thought I had seen my last chunk of mouse fecal-matter is getting to me. That and the little patches of rot/surface rust I keep finding while stripping and cleaning my interior. My suspension is done, thankfully, and looking back on it was a huge undertaking. Well, at least for me since I've never done that before.

 

So my list goes as follows:

1. Finish the interior

2. Remove rear bumper, shave, smooth out the rest of the body

3. Get all the lights hooked back up and get them working

4. Get the engine running top shape, discover origin of ticking noise (probably valvetrain)

5. Register the Z, insure

6. Get new rims/tires, install ZG flares (though I may just keep the old rims and get spacers to fill out the flares for a while)

7. Paint the exterior

34. Rebuild turbo motor, megasquirt, EDIS, etc.

 

Everything except item #34 I'd like to get done before summer. The turbo can wait until next winter, or an off project that I'll tinker with every once in a while. I guess its just depressing that I spent the money on it, where I could have spent it elsewhere on something more pertinent. It just isn't priority #1 anymore, like I had thought when I purchased it.

 

Another note with the lights though, a while back when fiddling around with wiring and trying to get the engine to start (and trying to figure out why my running lights were on, but not my instruments and headlights. I could get one or the other, not both), I think I crossed a wire leading out of my light switch by hooking it to the wrong wire leading from the chassis. I heard a sharp popping sound, and all my lights went bye bye. I'm hoping I didn't burn out the multi switch stalk... So that might hamper future progress in getting this car roadworthy.

[Daeron]

the motor in your car is not THAT high compression.

 

Get her running. Get your megasquirt and associated bits, and when that is together and running on the car, then throw the turbo hardware on and retune. slowly disassemble and re build your turbo block and head while tuning and playing with intercoolers and stuff, and when the time is right (read: when the original motor blows) drop in your turbo block. Then, all you need is big injectors and a big turbo and you are instantly at 400 horse.

[Oddmanout84]

...and when the time is right (read: when the original motor blows)

 

That's heartwarming! Lmao!

 

I'd hope it wouldn't come to that, but the possibility is certainly clear in my mind. I've thought ebout this before, just swapping the heads of my two motors, or just slapping on the turbo manifold. Well, maybe not that simple. I'd still have to route the new oil cooling lines and whatnot for the turbo, etc. Only thing that's been a block in the road; Megasquirt. I think I need to first get a better grasp on the car's factory electronics and how it all meshes together before I dive into it. Also there are a few tuning maps I've seen on this site from others that have done this before me, but I'll be honest, I'm completely lost when I look at them. Some areas click, but its still fuzzy. I think I'll save myself some potentially expensive mistakes if I wait a bit until I have a better understanding.

 

Oh yeah, and I'd have to get rid of my twice pipes (maybe?) and headers that I've grown to love so dearly. I say maybe because there have been a few threads I've seen with people flaming the use of the twice pipes as a viable option for a turbo motor.

 

Thanks guys, you've lifted my spirits a bit. I'll just have to wait a little while longer.

[Daeron]

have I given you the schpiel about twice pipes yet? Its all about pipe sizing (the MSA kit is equivalent to about a single 3" pipe IIRC, so adequate for moderate goals, it would probably hold you back from 400 but 300 oughta be doable.)

 

As long as the exhaust pulses share a common collector (heh, turbo) there is no "inherent problem" with what we now call twice pipes for any motor. Unless I am *SADLY* mistaken, "twice pipes" back in the day specifically meant half the cylinders to each pipe, all the way back.. like side pipes, or whatever. Anymore, any setup marketed as "twice pipes" typically starts in one single pipe (collector) just like the MSA kit. So, thats the short version.. the short, SHORT version is, get a downpipe, attach it to the collector at the head of your twice pipes sytem, and don't worry about the exhaust again until

 

A: it breaks or

B: it is holding you back from 400 horsepower.

 

I could give you the longer, more detailed version, with the math, and the pi, and the linear resistance to flow and whatnot, if you would like.. just ask and I will dig some of my previous posts up by search.

[Oddmanout84]

have I given you the schpiel about twice pipes yet?

 

Well, not directly. I read several of your schpiels in other threads. Sorry I didn't elaborate, but yes, its the MSA system (which isn't a "true" twice pipe system). So I would be getting a new downpipe from MSA or make one myself, because that stock 90 degree bend crap on it has to go. Then I'd just have to fabricate some way to connect it to the exhaust. 300hp out of that system would be fine for me, the only thing is people seem to whine about not only the "size" of the pipe (which I think is fine), but the sound. Guess I'll have to find out myself.

[Pharaohabq]

What "ticking" in your drivetrain are you refering to? The OHC on the L28's all make a clicking noise along with the injectors. It's normal. if that's your reference, then don't worry, it won't hurt anything. Though if your Turbo had a P90 or P90a head on it, then you'll have hydraulic lifters which are MUCH MUCH quieter. Probably nothing to worry about. now if the noise is much more a Klacking noise from the bottom of the engine, you might be in for that turbo engine a lot sooner than you think, as that noise could be a rod knock.

 

Megasquirt. Well I haven't done a MS setup either, but from the few people who've posted about how they've done it, it's pretty straightforward. most people have it start right up on their first go. though ofter they have already tested the ms w/ a testboard. Just get a list of the components and make a diagram of what each one does, it's pretty easy from there. it's almost plug and play. You can then load different maps to tune it, but there's plenty of people on here who'll share their maps "pretuned" for stock, or for turbo applications.

 

Exhaust: yeah keep your 2x pipes. you won't need more than that for quite some time, just integrate the downpipe into the system. shoudl be pretty easy and cheap even to have done at an exhaust shop.

 

Phar

[Oddmanout84]

What "ticking" in your drivetrain are you refering to? The OHC on the L28's all make a clicking noise along with the injectors. It's normal. if that's your reference, then don't worry, it won't hurt anything. Though if your Turbo had a P90 or P90a head on it, then you'll have hydraulic lifters which are MUCH MUCH quieter. Probably nothing to worry about. now if the noise is much more a Klacking noise from the bottom of the engine, you might be in for that turbo engine a lot sooner than you think, as that noise could be a rod knock.

 

Megasquirt. Well I haven't done a MS setup either, but from the few people who've posted about how they've done it, it's pretty straightforward. most people have it start right up on their first go. though ofter they have already tested the ms w/ a testboard. Just get a list of the components and make a diagram of what each one does, it's pretty easy from there. it's almost plug and play. You can then load different maps to tune it, but there's plenty of people on here who'll share their maps "pretuned" for stock, or for turbo applications.

 

Exhaust: yeah keep your 2x pipes. you won't need more than that for quite some time, just integrate the downpipe into the system. shoudl be pretty easy and cheap even to have done at an exhaust shop.

 

Phar

 

In my previous line of work, we had a way of making initial judgments on the severity of wear on a component. It was called "Clink, Clank, Clunk". Clunk would be the worst possible (needs replacing) sound. My engine's certainly not making a clunk sound, and the origin is certainly on the top end. It could be the injectors, as it was hard to narrow it down to a single point. The noises sounded like they got louder through the stethoscope toward the #6 cylinder though. This could still be an injector though, as that was one that provided an abnormal reading on my multimeter tests earlier. The engine also makes an annoying, high pitched buzzing/whining sound that gets somewhat quieter after warming up, and it sounds like its coming from around the EGR or BPT valve (and as you know the connection from my exhaust to EGR is disconnected and plugged with duct tape).

[Oddmanout84]

I'm hating myself right now. See illustrations below for the explanation.

 

Holes!!! Rust was cut out and "cured" with converter.

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|

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[___--> Holes, no more.

 

I can only hope that I don't forget to do this the right way later on. But right now, without a welder I'm left with little choice. Each hole is covered with glass 2 sheets thick, and the two forward (more severe) ones also have 2 extra sheets tacked on the bottom side of the car. I hope this at least holds tight for a little while, and doesn't blow out over the first puddle I hit. I forgot what its like playing with this resin stuff, its been years! Like fondling a giant ball of snot...*retch* Mmmmm! Tasty!!!

 

I have some more legitimate areas of the car that will be covered by this method too, namely my mirror holes in the door and.... well, ok, that's the only legitimate area. The rest are more small rust holes that have been hit with converter and sanded down.

 

Please don't hurt me!!!

[Oddmanout84]

And on a further note, I've pretty-much confirmed that the 5 speed installed in this car is the later (1980-198?) ZX model. Motorsport auto explained this to me over the phone when I was attempting to order (you guessed it) a short throw shifter. The model I'm getting will require some modification to the dog ears to install, but it supposed to shorten the throw by 70%. Holy crap! Hopefully I don't regret this (ie. being reduced too much for comfort).

 

Its no small wonder why that plate between the bellhousing and the engine is missing now. The two first POs of the car were women + California mechanics = shoddily installed new tranny. All chauvinistic jokes aside, California mechanics, in my experience, are extremely shady on average.

[Oddmanout84]

...Says the guy who just fiberglassed two rust holes in his floor pans.

[Oddmanout84]

Gone, its finally gone. Today I decided that I didn't want the eyesore there any longer, so it was delt with. Too bad, 'cause now my garage has less places to sit.

 

Only problem is... Look at my exhaust. The twice pipes are flying out there! Its not a terrible surprise, I knew it was going to happen. But the effect is much more than I estimated. I think I may end up cutting about 3 inches off the pipe directly in front of the glass packs, but that will only lessen it to a small degree. I hope I don't end up having to cut the chrome tips too... Regardless, I don't think I can leave them sticking out like that. It looks like I could impale a small child on them if I backed up carelessly.

 

This is the other issue I noticed once I dropped the car back down after removing the driver side bumper shock.

 

I think I may have preloaded the bushings? The jack is not supporting the car in this picture, its on all four wheels. Yet that gap is HUGE. Maybe I'm being overly critical, but I don't remember the car having that much gap in the wheel wells even when it had the stock suspension. If it isn't a mistake on my part, I may end up sourcing a pair of the 240z shock tops.

[rturbo 930]

Gone, its finally gone. Today I decided that I didn't want the eyesore there any longer, so it was delt with. Too bad, 'cause now my garage has less places to sit.

 

Only problem is... Look at my exhaust. The twice pipes are flying out there! Its not a terrible surprise, I knew it was going to happen. But the effect is much more than I estimated. I think I may end up cutting about 3 inches off the pipe directly in front of the glass packs, but that will only lessen it to a small degree. I hope I don't end up having to cut the chrome tips too... Regardless, I don't think I can leave them sticking out like that. It looks like I could impale a small child on them if I backed up carelessly.

 

This is the other issue I noticed once I dropped the car back down after removing the driver side bumper shock.

 

I think I may have preloaded the bushings? The jack is not supporting the car in this picture, its on all four wheels. Yet that gap is HUGE. Maybe I'm being overly critical, but I don't remember the car having that much gap in the wheel wells even when it had the stock suspension. If it isn't a mistake on my part, I may end up sourcing a pair of the 240z shock tops.

Did you let it settle?

 

Before:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MzDneJv4LQ0/SZpjh5RWJsI/AAAAAAAAHy4/Z8smJGPU9tM/s800/p1010441.jpg

After, but before letting it settle:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MzDneJv4LQ0/SZplfsrk0mI/AAAAAAAAH0A/MOvY9fVcj2k/s800/p1010453.jpg

 

I wouldn't worry about it. Our 280z looked weird right after we let it down too.

 

On the note of getting 240z shock tops, I bought AZC springs, and stole the shock tops off my 240z, since my 280z ones tore, and I'm kind of worried about it being TOO low. We'll find out.