WizardBlack Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I take it that, unlike double wishbone suspension, the Z wants to camber out once you have lowered it a bit? Mine is cambered out a bit and has susbstantial toe out. I have ALL ES poly bushings (LCA, TC rod, etc.) with the typical tokico strut/spring setup on my 280Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2126 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 So whats your question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 So whats your question? Good question. Another one for you. Does cambered out mean positive camber or negative camber? I would assume positive camber by the OUT, but I think it's more likely that your car has negative camber if it has been lowered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 Good question. Another one for you. Does cambered out mean positive camber or negative camber? I would assume positive camber by the OUT, but I think it's more likely that your car has negative camber if it has been lowered. Sorry, I didn't know ppl might consider out as negative. It has slight positive camber (ie., sticking out at the top) and toe out, although it seems to have lessened after driving it around the parking lot a bit. It's been on stands for a couple months. Yes, I did roll it back and forth first (after lowering it onto the wheels) before observing the alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 So whats your question? My question was the first sentence. It was a question in the form of a statement (of how I understand it) and asking for confirmation that this was correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Lowering a Z increases the negative camber. Not sure why you would have positive camber unless the drivetrain was out of the car or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 Lowering a Z increases the negative camber. Not sure why you would have positive camber unless the drivetrain was out of the car or something like that. That's what I'd thought from observing other cars lowered to the point that they need sectioned struts, etc. I will take another peek tommorow after it's been sitting on it's own feet for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I will take another peek tommorow after it's been sitting on it's own feet for a while. Sounds like you need to settle the car. Roll it forward and back about a car length each way and jump on both door sills a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 Sounds like you need to settle the car. Roll it forward and back about a car length each way and jump on both door sills a few times. Yeah, I did the rolling, but not the jumping on the door sills. LOL never thought I'd need that, but that makes an excellent point. I got too busy covering my dash in alcantara that I forgot to check the alignment. It's kinda sitting crooked on a sloped concrete area anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I got too busy covering my dash in alcantara Where are you posting this thread. Sounds very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Where are you posting this thread. Sounds very interesting. It's not a factory dash. I have an image of my 3.8 pound aluminum dash in the member's projects area. I just got it covered yesterday and have been installing gauges and switches today. I will probably have images up tomorrow with the alcantara on it. All you need is upholstery grade alcantara and spray adhesive such as what is used on a head liner. The dash was made with a metal brake, electric metal nibbler and an architect's square. Easy enough. I used a vice and some metal strips to bend the edges for reinforcement. It would probably hold 25 pounds without even distorting much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 A question for you... When you had your car on jack stands did you also install and tighten down all your suspension bushings? If the answer is yes that is the problem. What happens is with the car in the air the suspension is hanging down and in a positive camber, now you tighten everything and that condition is locked in, as the car settles it is either slipping on the bushings or tearing the bushings niether of which is good for your bushings. What I personaly do is if I have the car in the air and I loosen anything in the suspension I will leave it loose after all work is done, set the car down, drive it to the end of my block alternating between hitting the gas and the brakes, pull it back into the driveway and onto a set of ramps so as not to unload the suspension then I tighten everything down. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 What happens is with the car in the air the suspension is hanging down and in a positive camber, now you tighten everything and that condition is locked in, as the car settles it is either slipping on the bushings or tearing the bushings niether of which is good for your bushings. Theoretically that shouldn't happen. The inner sleeve should rotate inside the poly bushing. In practice poly has a buttload of stiction, and that's why you need to bounce the car around to settle the suspension. As for tearing the bushing, don't know that I've ever seen that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Dragonfly probably hasn't noticed that I have all poly bushings now. That'd totally make sense for rubber; particularly aged rubber. OTOH, I'd imagine it affects the preload. I came from a modern jap sportscar background and I gotta say I was scratching my head when I saw the poly bushing setup. Yeah, it'll take a lot to spin those inner sleeves. I also have poly T/C rod bushings (gonna replace the control arm setup sometime here) and I wonder if those don't put a heckuva bind as well. The entire suspension has lots of binding and stiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I also have poly T/C rod bushings (gonna replace the control arm setup sometime here) and I wonder if those don't put a heckuva bind as well. Good instincts. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=87758 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Good instincts. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=87758 Uh, yeah... I really want the steel tube type of front LCA with tabs welded on for both swaybar and a new rod/clevis type of TC rod with a ball joint from another vehicle, but the manufacturers all make billet aluminum LCA's now. I dunno if that's for ease of manufacture or if there's a risk involved, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I really want the steel tube type of front LCA with tabs welded on for both swaybar and a new rod/clevis type of TC rod with a ball joint from another vehicle, but the manufacturers all make billet aluminum LCA's now. I dunno if that's for ease of manufacture or if there's a risk involved, etc. I think Arizona Z Car makes the billet arms because lots of people have a big hard on for billet. You should have seen all the posts when those came out. People really liked them. I'm sure they sold a bunch. You might check out my thread on TC relocation as it shows a modified stock arm. Bjhines did the same thing, and I think 240hoke did too. Lots of us have modded stock arms successfully and made our own TC rod so that we don't have to use bushings anymore. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=120666 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=107794 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4xwellmurd3r Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I know this may not be of much help, but on my bug when we installed my camber compensator, we coated the poly bushings (that slide against the axle housings) with a nice layer of antiseize. Also, we did the same with the shifter bushing for the same reason. Think it would help to do something similar for poly bushings on a Z? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted September 1, 2008 Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 I know this may not be of much help, but on my bug when we installed my camber compensator, we coated the poly bushings (that slide against the axle housings) with a nice layer of antiseize. Also, we did the same with the shifter bushing for the same reason. Think it would help to do something similar for poly bushings on a Z? The surface that they intend to pivot is the outer edge of a steel sleeve/tube against the inner surface of hole in the poly bushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 The surface that they intend to pivot is the outer edge of a steel sleeve/tube against the inner surface of hole in the poly bushing. It still helps to lube the poly. They come with a silicone lube, but it gets squeezed out or used up fairly quickly. I installed zerks in the outer ends of the rear control arms to lube them up and it worked pretty well with typical moly chassis grease. Energy Suspension told me that the moly would be fine when I asked them. I tried zerks on the inner bushings, but the cups aren't tight so the grease just squeezed out through the cup. You can also trim the poly if it is too long for a particular spot, and you can shim under the straps to reduce the amount of pressure on the bushing so that it can move more smoothly (works well for sway bar bushings, not sure I'd do this on control arm bushings). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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