Guest Anonymous Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 I am ready to plop down a sizeable chunk of my hard earned money on a trans. I originally was planning on using a T-5 but my 440hp 420ft. lbs. 327 isn't going to allow that. I juggled some project $ and have decided to get a real trans. I have spoke to Pete at length about the Tremec option and was just about to send some cash away but now I'm having second thoughts. It's the cash to performance ratio that is the sticking point. So far I've come to: $1675 for TKO I, $330 for flywheel(alum), $175 for clutch, $300 for Tilton master/slave combo, and $150 for shifter. I still need a bellhousing to boot. Does the T-56 come with the bellhousing integrated? Will I need the Tilton slave and master? I can score a T-56 with some patience for 1500-2000 bucks and it should come with the old clutch and flywheel. Now I know that Mike Kelly is a huge fan of the 6 speed and that alone makes the trans the better choice. I plan on putting a 500+++ hp SBC in the future and already own my R230 for installation at a later date. Basically, is it the same amount of money or less, and is it a tougher trans overall? Are T56's really safe after they have been in a Camaro for 60,000 hard miles? I do kinda have reservatios about spending a grit load of money on a used piece. Is it safe? What have been your guys experience with used trans? Do you have a lead for one if I have the cash? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I sit here with the money burning a hole in my pocket and I want to spend it in the trans first... thanks guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 hey buddy. the reason i dont go with a six speed is because its a big money gamble, who knows what condition its like, you pay more than a 1k avg, and you dont know what cond its in, also, think of the way the guy might have been driving the car to have totaled it so bad that it ends up salvage???? you can get lucky or you can get really really unlucky. this is one of the reasons that a manual conversion is so dang expensive, my two other v8z partners in crime cant handle the manual conversion costs either, they are running th350 and 400 respectively for that reason. hey the cool part about that darkhorse or fortes trans is that it allows for a standard chevy mount and crossmember, and it uses the same setup used to activate a muncie t10 combo, which i have on lockdown, you can even use a muncie bellhousing to use the modified tremec. you are soon to be putting a lot of power through your car homie, you got to be sure here. especially since you have such a high revver(can you smell the jealousy here?) basically, mounting the tremec is like mounting a muncie, you would just need to set the crossmember back a couple inches back, no biggie. the hydraulics with the muncie swap are stupid easy too, if you want to make it even easier, hit up eric neyerlund at zparts.com, he has a scarab bell that enables a stock datsun slave to fully disengage a muncie-which will fully disengage the tremec-all you would have to do is get the bigger bore tilton and boom, you there man, you there, ya heard. cant mess with no four speed though.. im out like skiiiiiiirtttt!!!!! see ya buddy, when are you gonna get the party started anyway?? if you want, get the bay prepped and we'll drop that bad boy in in about six hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 I've got both transmissions. T56 is in my '94 Z28, It's a smooth shifting heavy duty box. Every time I drive the car, I drive it like I stole it. Full throttle up shifts, in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. This thing still has the stock clutch, and has 102K on the odometer. Those trannies with the broken internals are VERY abused. I have a Tremec 5spd behind the 351W that is going in my Zcar in the near future. The Tremec is a notchy shifting transmission when its new. It can be broken-in however . Full throttle powershifts will do wonders for a notchy trans. I would recommend the Pro 5.0 shifter for the Tremec, the stock shifter leaves alot to be desired. Either trans is a good durable transmission. I always enjoy rowing that 6th gear, right after the guy next to me has run out of gears(and gear), and I keep pulling away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Vince I believe you! I checked this morning but no luck. I have a couple of reliable customers looking out for 6 speeds for me. I've just heard too many negatives on the Tremec at the power levels I'm shooting for now and definently going to be a problem with big power later. If I can find a T56 for $1000 to $1800 bucks I'm going to take it. Oh yeah Leonard, who the hell told ya that hauling ass is cheap! Go big or don't go baby! The manual trans is absolutely a necessity! This thing is going to live on the streets and terrorize at the track(quarter mile, road course, and autocross and even some roundy round to see how it does against my old American iron!)I honestly believe that a solid T56 is better than a brand new T-3550 TKO I. Now I know the TKO box is supposed to be THE trans but the price and short overdrive is telling me to go T56. Any more insight guys... What about the bellhousing...?Oh yeah, What up Leonard???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 You could use an 84-88 Corvette bellhousing for the Tremec. I thought about this for a long time in my Camaro. My conclusion was the Tremec 5 speed and stock mechanical clutch linkage with a steel scattershield and 30# steel flywheel. I recommend the same setup with your Z. As far as the T56, you have to have the Camaro bellhousing. I am not a believer in 6 speeds for a carbureted car. They just don't allow ENOUGH rpm for cruising IMO. The Tremec has better gear ratio spread I believe and a .75 overdrive with a 3.70 gear is a 2.75 final drive ratio! With the 3.54 it drops to a 2.6. The most common upgrade in the Camaros is the switch to 4.10 which makes the .5 OD a little more justifiable. I agree with you on buying a new trans unless the used one is basically a gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 ) hauling ass is not cheap, but it doesnt have to take your soul either. my bad playboy, if i had it like that id go t56, brand new only or from a good reliable source with ridiculously low miles, as for it taking abuse, i know a guy who has a 01 ss camaro, and with 2202 or so miles on the clock has blown his rear end, warped all four rotors and burnt the pads out, gone through three sets of tires doing doughnuts, has every single error code known to man flashing on the dash, and has broken third synchro on a t56, and killed the clutch, now think of that car with 60k, id had to think about the possibilities if i got that mans trans, paying more than 1000 to get some played out trans thats not for me. i would rather have a new trans than taking a gamble on a used one that cost me an arm and a leg and be crappy. you really want to kill that little unibody dont you? join the club , man ace, you a bad mutha(watch your mouth). either way tremec or a t56 are both great trans for the motor you have, i think youll bust either one so i guess it doesnt matter. for me if i go to a five speed it will probably be a tremec t550, it will bolt right up to my setup, be the most cost effective and plenty strong(at least for a week or so (ive managed to break everything else, why should the trans be any different.) im serious though, whatever you decide to go with im sure it will work out great, and if you need a helping hand just ask. Leonard btw: nice rice rocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest super280z Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 noone seems to believe me i've said it once and i'll say it again. the T-56 can be had for ~400. check the for sale section on camaro z-28.com those guys let stuff go real cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I believe you, people do let them go cheap sometimes, and I'm sure some of them are fine, on the other hand I know of at least three people who have bought used cheap ones (and to be fair, even expensive ones) that had busted shift rails. I know I paid way to much for mine, but got it complete and it was really in super condition. People (like us on this forum) that are musclecar enthusiast don't normally hold back from really banging shifters in the heat of a moment. The T56 has a fairly durable gearset, but if you really bang one from gate to gate, IMHO I'd urge a aftermarket shifter than has positive stops so you don't damage the internal shift linkage. Like anything, buyer beware is the best advice anyone can get when dealing online (I.E. Ebay). Just an opinion of course. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Gosh Leonard, sometimes I wonder why I like you so much!? Oh yeah, it's that "I'll race ya no matter what!" attitude! I am really up in the air on this one. Either way it's a $2000 deal give or take a couple hundred bucks!! I guess I'm going to have to go with what comes up first. The t56 has some cool features yet so does the Tremec. If I could get some sort of warranty on the trans I would have to go that way but I doubt it. Can anybody out there tell me if I got a T56 that did have a broken shift rail or a worn out synchro where to get it fixed and roughly how much? If I got a T56 for say $1000 and it had a few internal issues if I could get it freshened for 500-800 bucks I believe that I am still ahead. I seriously doubt I'm ever going to put down more torque than a Viper, even with a 525+hp 377 sbc. Is this a good way of looking at it or is a T56 that is wounded a lame duck? Any insight would be helpful, thanks guys!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mileski Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I just wrote Richmond Gear an email last week, telling them I had a T-5 out of a 1991 Z-28 and I wanted something stronger that I could still bolt up to my 15 degree canted bellhousing. Here is the message I received back from them: "Richmond 6 speed part number 7051626 and yoke number 54-1310 would be a complete bolt-in change over package from your T-5". The problem is, I think the cost of the tranny is $2195. Mike Mileski Tucson, AZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I used a T56 form a 96 Camaro with 22,000 miles. I paid $1200 without the clutch setup. It did come with the bellhousing which bolts to the 327. Well I guess when this guy wrecked his Camaro he was in 5th or 6th gear. When I installed it, and drove it a couple of times, all of a sudden my tranny locked up. Took it back out, and brought it to a local well knowen stick tranny rebuilder. He found that the 5th and 6th gear fork was broken, and the rail was bent, probably because of the accident. Well he replaced the bad parts, and replaced all the bearings, and checked everything else to the tune of 800 bucks! At least now I have a new tranny to play with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 I guess that's encouraging?! So you still spent less than what I'm looking at and it's been gone through by a real shop. I would hate to get one that's bad but at least the tranny is now in good shape. Keep talking guys, I'm still with ya... Man why does this have to be so hard?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted February 6, 2002 Share Posted February 6, 2002 man, think about it and the choices are close, i think you can a warranty of some sort on a tremec though, if you can. ill get one as soon as i can get muncie number three to seize on me, the m22 is taking it a lot better than the m21s i had before. the t56 is a real tough trans, and if you could get the thing rebuilt completely before you installed it i think thats your best bet, maybe buy one purposely all the way screwed up? i mean it would be close to the same price to buy one with one or two gears fried right???? anyways i know your car will turn out great, if you need a part all you have to do is go to work right ?? alright homeskillet, holla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted February 6, 2002 Share Posted February 6, 2002 Incredible - I've been trying to respond to this for 2 days but the connection always times out. Another option is to buy a new RETRO T56 from Sallee. http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/BorgWarner/bwt56.html It's $2295 new, but can be bolted up to an old style bellhousing (Set up for a tilted T-5 bellhousing but they can drill the included adapter plate for the old style straight up bellhousing usually used for a Muncie or T-10). It has more reasonable gear ratios: 2.97:1, 1.94:1, 1.35:1, 1.00:1, 0.84:1, 0.62:1 No info there on what the torque rating is on that model. That's a big chunk of change, but it's a NEW tranny and you don't have to bend over and give Centerforce a pile of money for their flywheel, clutch setup (which galls me). Kind of wished I did this instead of the Tremec, based on the shift quality issues. BTW, Hanlon Motorsports is at http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com They have GM'd Tremecs and know how to build them, etc. They also have the Z series WC T-5, which may not be a bad option, especially if you put the bearing support in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 7, 2002 Share Posted February 7, 2002 Hey thanks Pete and Leonard. I spoke with Darkhorse and I'm leaning towards the road race TKO II. 550 ft. lbs rating but it does have the short overdrive. I think for my purposes that would be liveable. Sallee is where I got my ZZ4 motar that scattered. Maybe Larry Mackler can help me with the T56 stuff, they do kinda owe me one! Thanks again guys and Pete you are still the man(I don't care what DavyZ or Mike Kelly say about ya!) I'm gonna call Larry tomarrow and remind him of my pain and suffering to see if he can set me up... That particular Chevy dealer is pretty damn cool! Thank you again and any further input is appreciated!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted February 7, 2002 Share Posted February 7, 2002 Guys, the T56RETRO has a Torque Rating of 400ftlbs. That is because of the first gear ratio of 2.97. The T56 out of a 94-97 F-BODY has a 2.66 first gear ratio allowing a 450ftlb rating. Depending on your application, you could use the T56RETRO with a high torque motor IF you launched your car in second gear, because of the 1.94 ratio. Aside from the gear ratio's and speedo hookup, both transmissions are the same. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted February 7, 2002 Share Posted February 7, 2002 Just remember that torque loads are a 24 hour continuous rating and not a shock load rating. Shock is what kills the trans, not continuous power output. Also take into consideration your driving style, what you plan on using the car for and the size/type of tire you run/will run. Usually, the lower the first gear numerically (higher physically), the stronger the gear. That's why the old Mustang and 3.27 first in the T5 but the WC switched to the same gear as the Camaro, the 2.95 first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted February 7, 2002 Share Posted February 7, 2002 I have an idea that Jason is going to bang gears all the time (drag racing). He is young and crazy like Leonard, but in an Irish kind of way. (I didn't really say that, Jason!) Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 Yeah, I plan on bangin' em!! I only plan on drag racing this thing to close a few mouths but I do plan on driving this little monster hard and fast(just like we all should!!!) I mainly want the skinny on durability and bangability! THANKS AGAIN!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 for some reason, everything but the diff breaks the way we drive these things playboy. i have welded, strengthened and replaced a lot of things, ill tell you this before you even put the motor in, do some subframe connectors, im almost done with mine, ill be by your shop soon, we can go play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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