post me some questions

[rustorbust]

Ok grumpy I got one for ya... I have a 75 280z that I have working on for the last year and im down now to where I have to decide what im gonna do for a motor. Shooting the ♥♥♥♥ with a couple buddies of mine the other night we all decided that were gonna throw in parts we all have and put together a sbc turbo blow through setup. So my questions is to you, how do you think its gonna run? I have a 2 bolt 350 short block, cast crank, gm pink rods, and .30 over dished forged trw pistons with 4 valve reliefs. The short block only has about 20k miles on it and everything in it looks good. The heads are 882 heads 1.94I and 1.50E that just recently had a valve job done. I bought some parts last night and I bought a set of beehive springs for them. I have a set of Harland sharp 3/8 roller rockers that will be used. Old style single plane torker intake. With a 650dp using Andrew's instructions from SWTRacing.....http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru.html.

I bought a set of those ssautochrome headers last night off of ebay, if they dont fit I will modify some of the tubes to make them fit. I was gonna buy one of the cheap summit cams and I remembered that I bought one of the Crane blueprint cams for a 302 chevy a couple years back and never used it. So I pulled the cam card out of it and it has a 114 lsa which everyone says to use...... http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D967251&autoview=sku. For a turbo Im gonna buy a masterpower t70 not sure on the a/r yet but shooting for 5-10lbs of boost. Oh and for a tranny I have a tko600 thats gonna go behind it. If you need any other info let me know, but other than all that how do you think it will run?

[grumpyvette]

Ok... I realise this is the Gen I & II CHEV board and I've settled on a Ford Cleveland as the engine I'll be building up. but my Q is a bit more general than just model specific.

 

Of a choice between a stroked 393 N/A motor and a twin turbo (one per bank) EFI 302 motor with a moderate PSI boost setting, which is more likely to produce a comfortable forgiving ride?

 

if they both make equal hp, power the turbo 302 is probably the better engine in traffic

[grumpyvette]

Ok grumpy I got one for ya... I have a 75 280z that I have working on for the last year and im down now to where I have to decide what im gonna do for a motor. Shooting the ♥♥♥♥ with a couple buddies of mine the other night we all decided that were gonna throw in parts we all have and put together a sbc turbo blow through setup. So my questions is to you, how do you think its gonna run? I have a 2 bolt 350 short block, cast crank, gm pink rods, and .30 over dished forged trw pistons with 4 valve reliefs. The short block only has about 20k miles on it and everything in it looks good. The heads are 882 heads 1.94I and 1.50E that just recently had a valve job done. I bought some parts last night and I bought a set of beehive springs for them. I have a set of Harland sharp 3/8 roller rockers that will be used. Old style single plane torker intake. With a 650dp using Andrew's instructions from SWTRacing.....http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru.html.

I bought a set of those ssautochrome headers last night off of ebay, if they dont fit I will modify some of the tubes to make them fit. I was gonna buy one of the cheap summit cams and I remembered that I bought one of the Crane blueprint cams for a 302 chevy a couple years back and never used it. So I pulled the cam card out of it and it has a 114 lsa which everyone says to use...... http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D967251&autoview=sku. For a turbo Im gonna buy a masterpower t70 not sure on the a/r yet but shooting for 5-10lbs of boost. Oh and for a tranny I have a tko600 thats gonna go behind it. If you need any other info let me know, but other than all that how do you think it will run?

 

can it be made to run? probably. but theres so many areas that can or might get, lets say (screwed up) that its going to take a good deal of fabrication, and tunning skills, to get it working reasonably well,any time you get into a project, its best to follow an EXACT PROVEN FORMULA and PARTS LIST,

throwing parts you have access to or get deals on at a project to keep costs low rarely results in a nearly ideal result.

[rustorbust]

Im not so much worried about the fabrication side of things, I know there will be alot of fabrication but I have a real talented group of friends and Im not to shabby myself making things work. I guess the proven formula that im looking at is all the guys I see on the turbomustang site that put together stocker stuff with a little boost and run very well. I know that there will be alot of tuning involved and im ok with that, that is the kind of stuff that I get a kick out of doing. I plan on buying one of the LM1 innovate o2 sensor systems.

[grumpyvette]

Well, since you are open to discussion on pretty much anything, I'd like some input/direction/advice. I'm currently building an engine for my dad's '69 camaro. Right now we're still in the phase of planning things out and deciding on everything. The best bang for the buck is the idea here. We currently have the following to work with and will be picking up whatever else is needed.

 

-Complete 350 010 pulled as a runner from a chevy van. It looks like it's never been molested before. This is the block we're planning on using. Completely stock and sitting on a stand right now.

-Current motor in the car right now. It's a 307 SBC and from what we can tell it just has a few bolt ons aside from the cam the po shoved into it. I say shoved because he neglected to add any supporting mods with it.

Edelbrock performer intake

Edelbrock performer carb

HEI

Comp cam -- .501 lift, 292dur iirc

headers > purple hornies

- Turbo 350. It has a summit aluminum pan on it and a B&M full race shifter, but a stock converter so we're not sure if it has any work done to it or if it just has a few things tossed onto it.

 

Now my dilema is as follows. I saw what you suggested a few posts up to get to ~400HP and that sounds like an excellent number. It has a lot of the things that I was planning on going with, but I'm having a buddy tell me that aluminum heads aren't worth the price and you can port stock 1.94's to flow just as well as an aftermarket head.

Is .500 lift too high for a street motor? This same buddy is telling me that that much lift is just going to cause problems.

What compression ratio should I be shooting for if I'm planning to stay on pump gas?

What displacement do you prefer? 302(with the 265 crank), 350, or 383(with the 400 crank)? Did I get that right on the different stroking options?

 

Thanks for your input Grumpy!

 

ok where to start?

(1)

your talking about this cam

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2DCL12%2D213%2D3&autoview=sku

 

its a TOTAL #$%%^^ MIS MATCH to stock heads, a 307 with stock compression and a stock stall speed converter and rear gear, theres nothing wrong with the cam in the correct combo but what you listed is not close!

ideally that cam needs to be matched to 350-400 sbc,heads that flow about 250cfm or better at .500 lift,a 10.5:1-11:1 cpr, a 3500rpm stall converter and a 3.73:1-4.56:1 rear gear

 

"I'm having a buddy tell me that aluminum heads aren't worth the price and you can port stock 1.94's to flow just as well as an aftermarket head."

 

to be polite ..your buddies dreaming....unless hes refering to matching the flow rates to something pathetic like stock aluminum corvette L98 heads, because theres not enought metal in the stock iron small valve head to even support porting the stock heads to that extent, and even if you turned the heads over to a master head porter he would charge far more to get an inferior head than you could buy a decent aftermarket head for

 

 

youll get the best bang for rour dollar with a 350 or 383

your usually limited to about a .470 lift with stock valve train components on factory orriginal heads

good 23 degree sbc aluminum heads flow up to 320cfm

stock 194. valve iron heads after port work don,t usually get to 235cfm

 

look heres some pro port shop BRAGGING they get 200 cfm from a similar head and 235cfm from ported fuelies

 

 

http://www.castheads.com/factory_chevy_305.php

http://www.castheads.com/factory_chevy_492.php

 

compare

 

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html

 

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy

 

I can give you a parts list, but if you start substituting out parts on that list for what you get a (GOOD DEAL) on and don,t match ALL the required matching drive train, and listed components chances are excellent it won,t run worth #$%& when your done!...even a single substituted component, or changing the cpr, or restricting the exhaust,etc, can drastically reduce the power output

[cockerstar]

Thanks Grumpy

 

I have a feeling that he is telling me all of these opinions on what to do because it's very similar to what he did. 350 .030 over, flat tops, .447 lift cam, ported 1.94's, quadrajet carb, HEI, etc.

 

That is the cam that I have. I just went and checked the spec sheet

Is being a TOTAL #$%%^^ MIS MATCH to stock heads is very plain whenever the car is fired up. It's popped rocker studs before and the idle has to be brought way up to keep it from dying whenever it's put into gear. It's horrible.

 

I'm not sure what the rear gear is. All I do know that it's an open 10 bolt.

 

A specific parts list would be excellent, but I have a feeling that I'm not to that point yet

 

 

What kind of build would you suggest for something in the $1-1.25k range? I know it's going to be fairly mild for that kind of price tag.

[Guest K583]

Hi Grumpy, i'm a new guy in the forum, i need to rebuild a LT1 1994, but i

need to change my connecting rods, i bought the "How to rebuild yoru LT1 and

LT4 Engine" manual but i can't nothing about installing Conn Rods Backwards

or there is just one position?

 

Thanx

[spdkilz02]

OK Grumpy, Im building a 350 for my 280zx. I plan on using Trickflow heads with probably a Holley 750 carb. The car is going to be completely track used. I need help putting together a parts list so I can get approved for everything at work. So if there is any insight you would be able to give me that would be great, this will be my first time building a motor. I work at Summit Racing, so with my discount I can pretty much go all out on the motor.

 

I was thinking about 400 horse to the wheels with either a turbo 400 or a powerglide.

[madden87]

My distributor is not advancing correctly at higher rpm's. It is an hei. I really only use this car at the drag strip or around the community to the store and back. What distributor should I look at getting? Right now I shift at about 6400 rpm.

[grumpyvette]

Hi Grumpy, i'm a new guy in the forum, i need to rebuild a LT1 1994, but i

need to change my connecting rods, i bought the "How to rebuild yoru LT1 and

LT4 Engine" manual but i can't nothing about installing Conn Rods Backwards

or there is just one position?

 

Thanx

 

 

look closely at the connecting rods one edge of the main bearing are is beveled noticably more than the other that beveled side faces away from the rod its paired with because it matches the slight radias of the crank journal

ok lets look at a few things, first , if you look closely at your connecting rods you'll see that one side has considerably more bevel ground on the inner edge of the connecting rod around the bearing than the other side does, to side with that bevel ground on it is to provide clearance for the radius ground onto the crankshaft where the crank throw meets the counterweights like you mentioned, that side of course goes out away from the other rod, to side with far less pronounced bevel is the side where the two connecting rods meet, and ride against each other during normal engine operation normal clearance there is in the area of six to 15 thousands of an inch. When the two connecting rods are correctly torque in place and a feeler gauge is fitted between them to check the maximum clearance.

Now a small block Chevrolet the valve placement or valve layout is in this order on a normal head, E I I E E I I E , the letter (E) of course representing exhaust and the letter (I) of course representing intake your Pistons will have to be inserted into the cylinders matching that layout, this will mean there will be two left and two right Pistons on each cylinder bank, if there is a dome on the Pistons it will go towards the outside of the block, when the machine shop installed the Pistons on the connecting rods, they should have been set up with four of the Pistons set up with the exhaust valve notch on the Pistons facing towards the bevel on the connecting rods and four of the Pistons set out live the intake valve side of the Pistons facing that bevel, lets look at the first two cylinders, cylinder number one is the front left forward facing forward look at the diagram per cylinder layout any

on that Piston both the bevel for the Crank Journal that provides bearing clearance and the exhaust valve notch would be towards the front of the engine, but on the next cylinder number two, on the opposite side of the engine. That Piston would have the bevel on the connecting rod facing the rear of the engine, but the exhaust valve notch would be facing the front of the engine, now let's look at cylinders three and four, cylinder number three, would have the bevel on the rod of course facing forward but the exhaust valve notch facing the rear of the engine, on cylinder number four you would have the bevel on the connecting rod facing towards the rear of the engine, and the exhaust valve notch facing towards the rear of the engine, now let's look at cylinders 5 and 6 cylinder number five, bevel forward exhaust forward, cylinder number six exhaust forward but bevel towards the rear for cylinders number 7 & 8 on cylinder number seven, exhaust out notch towards the rear, bearing bevel towards the front of the engine on cylinder number eight bearing bevel towards the rear of the engine and exhaust out towards the rear of the engine

keep in mind that some non- standard head / port layouts can potentially change the piston notch layout

you’ll also need to make sure you’re piston ring end gap is correct, that the piston rings have the correct side facing upwards that the bearings are installed with the correct clearance, and coated with assembly lubricant, that the piston to cylinder block deck clearance is correct ,that your quench distances are correct, and that after you degree in the cam that the piston to valve Clearance is correct. Youll also need to be careful that you don,t hit the connecting rod or rod bolts to the crank journals potentially causing any damage during the installation, and its normal to oil the rings and piston with a lite machine oil during the installation.

Ive personally found that the piston ring compressors that work best are this type,

 

this type is far easiers to line up to the block surface at a slight angle that allows the rings to partly pop out from under its lower edge just as the rings leave the lower edge of the compressor and enter the cylinders bore, now Im not saying you can,t do it, just that its far easier to do it correctly with this type of ring compressor.

[grumpyvette]

OK Grumpy, Im building a 350 for my 280zx. I plan on using Trickflow heads with probably a Holley 750 carb. The car is going to be completely track used. I need help putting together a parts list so I can get approved for everything at work. So if there is any insight you would be able to give me that would be great, this will be my first time building a motor. I work at Summit Racing, so with my discount I can pretty much go all out on the motor.

 

I was thinking about 400 horse to the wheels with either a turbo 400 or a powerglide.

 

use this 406 short block, its easier to get the necessary power than building a 383 from your 350 block, and its a much stronger block,

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chev_sb_shortb.html

 

this top end kit

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS%2DK314%2D500%2D450&autoview=sku

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-2975

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRO-66310-16

 

and find a low profile 7-8 qt baffled oil pan that fits your application

[LLave]

can it be made to run? probably. but theres so many areas that can or might get, lets say (screwed up) that its going to take a good deal of fabrication, and tunning skills, to get it working reasonably well,any time you get into a project, its best to follow an EXACT PROVEN FORMULA and PARTS LIST,

throwing parts you have access to or get deals on at a project to keep costs low rarely results in a nearly ideal result.

 

I am very interested in this. I too have been considering putting a Master Power T70 on a TPI 350 I have sitting around. Honestly mostly due to the fact that I am very interested in turbos and just plain want to build a turbo motor. So, if you don't mind, lets talk about a good formula for a reasonably buget oriented SBC turbo motor.

[grumpyvette]

http://www.turbofast.com.au/links.html

 

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article021/A21-P1.htm

 

all the research has already been done...BUT theres NOTHING budget about a correctly built turbo motor!

[grumpyvette]

Thanks Grumpy

 

 

 

A specific parts list would be excellent, but I have a feeling that I'm not to that point yet

 

 

What kind of build would you suggest for something in the $1-1.25k range? I know it's going to be fairly mild for that kind of price tag.

 

 

step 1, buy and install this cam

 

E110024KS

ERSON

http://kyspeedparts.com/items/valvetrain/camshafts/pbm~erson-cams/small-block-chevy-hydraulic-flat-tappet/pbm-e110024ks-sb-chevy-cam-kit-55-95-detail.htm

 

in your 307 sbc,OR YOUR 350SBC

this intake

http://kyspeedparts.com/items/intake-manifolds/professional-products-intake-manifolds/small-block-chevy/pps52026-sb-chevy-crosswind-satin-finish-1500-6500-rpm-detail.htm

these headers

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HED%2D65003&N=700+4294925082+4294908216+4294908198+4294840140+115&autoview=sku

 

that alone will make a noticable improvement, it should boost the stock 307 about 40hp,or 350 about 50 hp and leave it DRIVEABLE AND DEPENDABLE

[peej410]

Hey Grumpy!

 

I have bothered you many times before but finally ideas are becoming reality.

 

Here is what I have so far

AFR 195 Eliminators. 65cc

A 350 block machined

4.020 SRP pistons with a 1.260 compression height

Eagle 6in Featherweight rods.

Weiand Xcelerator. (not commited to it at all)

 

Here are my goals. ~450 hp. 7500rpm

A motor that will survive track days and autocross for at least a few seasons before freshening.

 

Parts I am looking to use.

66900X980-16 Crower Cool face lifter

CS XS282S-10 Comp Cam With Nitriding.

Scat 4340 crank.

 

What do you think of what I have so far and what I am planning to purchase?

Also what is a good road course carb ? something that can handle a lot of G loading.

[grumpyvette]

Hey Grumpy!

 

I have bothered you many times before but finally ideas are becoming reality.

 

Here is what I have so far

AFR 195 Eliminators. 65cc

A 350 block machined

4.020 SRP pistons with a 1.260 compression height

Eagle 6in Featherweight rods.

Weiand Xcelerator. (not commited to it at all)

 

Here are my goals. ~450 hp. 7500rpm

A motor that will survive track days and autocross for at least a few seasons before freshening.

 

Parts I am looking to use.

66900X980-16 Crower Cool face lifter

CS XS282S-10 Comp Cam With Nitriding.

Scat 4340 crank.

 

What do you think of what I have so far and what I am planning to purchase?

Also what is a good road course carb ? something that can handle a lot of G loading.

 

the cam,lifters,crank,heads and rods are good but I don,t see the compression ratio listed , which needs to be at about 10.5:1 and I don,t know your trans or rear gear ratio which should be something like a manual trans with a 3.90:1 rear gear

the

Weiand Xcelerator is a poor choice

get the

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY%2D300%2D110&autoview=sku

 

you better plan on a decent baffled oil pan also like a

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MOR%2D21805&N=700+4294908216+115&autoview=sku

 

and set the rev limiter at 6700rpm and get decent 1 3/4" full length headers and a 3" full length exhaust

Ive had good results with this carb

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Barry%20Grant/132/5282010GC/10002/-1#

[rsicard]

Grumpyvette: Do you have any articles on balancing V8 engines when all component weights are known and crank maximum bobweight is also known? Please advise. Thanks.

[grumpyvette]

Grumpyvette: Do you have any articles on balancing V8 engines when all component weights are known and crank maximum bobweight is also known? Please advise. Thanks.

 

will this help?

 

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/crank-bal-c.htm

 

http://www.centuryperformance.com/engine-balancing-for-life-power-amp-efficiency-spg-145.html

 

http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/engine-balancing.php

 

http://www.eddiesvalvegrinding.com/balancing.htm

 

http://www.completeautorepair.net/engine_balancing.htm

 

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb10330.htm

 

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0803_engine_balancing/index.html

[peej410]

the cam,lifters,crank,heads and rods are good but I don,t see the compression ratio listed , which needs to be at about 10.5:1 and I don,t know your trans or rear gear ratio which should be something like a manual trans with a 3.90:1 rear gear

the

Weiand Xcelerator is a poor choice

get the

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY%2D300%2D110&autoview=sku

 

you better plan on a decent baffled oil pan also like a

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MOR%2D21805&N=700+4294908216+115&autoview=sku

 

and set the rev limiter at 6700rpm and get decent 1 3/4" full length headers and a 3" full length exhaust

Ive had good results with this carb

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Barry%20Grant/132/5282010GC/10002/-1#

 

This is the pan I was looking at, since I intend to turn both ways.

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tpc=Canton_Chevy_Small_Block_Pro_Road_Race_Pan&form_prod_id=1053,1052,51,363_5602&action=product

 

I will be running a BW T5 and the only ratios i have for the rear are 3.5 with a 24in tire.

 

I looked at the Ohio Crankshaft link in one of your earlier posts. Am I better off getting one of their 4340 cranks or the Scat?

 

Also why the 6700 RPM limit? Valvetrain?

 

Lastly, that manifold seems a lot larger than I anticipated... Whats your reasoning for such a large manifold?

[grumpyvette]

This is the pan I was looking at, since I intend to turn both ways.

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tpc=Canton_Chevy_Small_Block_Pro_Road_Race_Pan&form_prod_id=1053,1052,51,363_5602&action=product

 

thats fine!

 

I will be running a BW T5 and the only ratios i have for the rear are 3.5 with a 24in tire.

 

NOT ideal but it will work, your cams designed more for a slightly higher average rpm

 

I looked at the Ohio Crankshaft link in one of your earlier posts. Am I better off getting one of their 4340 cranks or the Scat?

 

scat makes/sells good 4340 cranks as does ohio crank, your choice, BUT AS IVE STATED SEVERAL TIMES, your best off buying a complete and ballanced rotating assembly from a single source

 

Also why the 6700 RPM limit? Valvetrain?

 

that cams power band in a 350 is usually 3500rpm -6700rpm and even at 6700rpm youll probably need a rocker stud girdle and 1.6:1 ratio,roller rockers to get the max benefits

 

Lastly, that manifold seems a lot larger than I anticipated... Whats your reasoning for such a large manifold?

 

if you want the expensive AFR heads to breath to thier full potential you need the better intake, the other ones far less effective, and flows retrictive compared to the kd/holley intake, no sence paying for the good heads then restricting thier potential, btw youll have good port velocity with that carb I listed

 

ok?