G-rib-73-240z Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 i got my first short block today for $100, got it from my friends friend. He doesnt remember what was wrong with it when we took it down to the shortblock but he said he'll help me work on it and everything. Told me to tear it down and have the block cleaned up so i can figure out whats wrong with it and fix it. he even said he'd see what parts he can help me get deals with and what not. it was kept in a garage out of the moisture and i trust the guy so im sure its a good block, hopefully i just need some pistons, rings and bearings. Whats generally cheaper a demon or a holly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Holleys generally cost less, than demons, but that’s NOT how you select carburetors, you figure out what you need for your application, first, and buy that or look for one you can buy at a swap meet, Craig’s list, in the local classifieds, ETC. you don,t settle for something you find at a good or the best price on the wrong carburetor, as it gains you very little! and a great (DEAL) on the wrong carb, can cause you constant problems. now that being said, youll seldom have problems with a vacume secondary holley or demon carb .in the 700cfm-850cfm range on a performance sbc application if the correct intake, cam,heads, drive train gearing and low restriction exhaust is used in the build, while it might not get you to your full potential, its certainly going to function if your decent a tunning the combo, if theres nothing wrong with the rest of the combo. now on the BLOCK, take it to a local shop for cleaning, inspection,and if it passed inspection, have new cam bearings installed, theres no sence dumping more money into the build UNTILL your sure the blocks solid and reuseable. http://www.holley.com/applications/CarburetorSelector/CarbSelection.asp http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-rib-73-240z Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Holleys generally cost less, than demons, but that’s NOT how you select carburetors, you figure out what you need for your application, first, and buy that or look for one you can buy at a swap meet, Craig’s list, in the local classifieds, ETC. you don,t settle for something you find at a good or the best price on the wrong carburetor, as it gains you very little! and a great (DEAL) on the wrong carb, can cause you constant problems.now that being said, youll seldom have problems with a vacume secondary holley or demon carb .in the 700cfm-850cfm range on a performance sbc application if the correct intake, cam,heads, drive train gearing and low restriction exhaust is used in the build, while it might not get you to your full potential, its certainly going to function if your decent a tunning the combo, if theres nothing wrong with the rest of the combo. now on the BLOCK, take it to a local shop for cleaning, inspection,and if it passed inspection, have new cam bearings installed, theres no sence dumping more money into the build UNTILL your sure the blocks solid and reuseable. http://www.holley.com/applications/CarburetorSelector/CarbSelection.asp http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125 will do i need to get my friends motor stand or something because theres oil in the pan and some of its on my garage floor haha, so when i think of how to drain the oil i can tear it appart and see if it was a rod knock or something else. there is just about no ledge in the cylender so if anything im ganna have it rehoned atleast to be safe. he told me to have my friend call him before i buy anything so he can see if any one of his friends have it cheaper, or can find it cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJBrian Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hey Grumpy I have been reading your carb suggestions. I used the holley carb selector from your link and they suggest a 600, 650, or 700 cfm with mech secondarys. You argee with this and what CFM? My setup is a 350 .060 over around 9.5 compression vortec heads with 1.5 rockers comp 270H cam edelbrock performer rpm air gap 6spd manual trans and 3.90 rear end. Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Looking at your posted combo, Id say a 600cfm-650cfm mechanical secondary would be fine, but if your going to do a lot more mods in the future ID strongly suggest the 700cfm-or even a 750 cfm, to leave room for future needs, as it won’t hurt the current combo noticeably with that edelbrock performer rpm air gap 6spd manual trans and 3.90 rear end. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 The shift key and others must be broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJBrian Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 looking at your posted combo Id say a 600cfm-650cfm mechanical secondary would be fine, but if your going to do alot more mods in the future ID strongly suggest the 700cfm-or even a 750 cfm, to leave room for future needs, as it won,t hurt the current combo noticably with that edelbrock performer rpm air gap6spd manual trans and 3.90 rear end. Thanks. I was thinking of using a 650. There is always the chance of future mods but using a 700-750 with my current setup would hurt me in what way? Bad throttle response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsicard Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Grumpyvette: Aside from Carbs, I would like to get your thoughts as to the differences between MAP and Speed Density base fuel injection systems. I am told that the former is better? Some at the EFI Live sight folks are disabling the MAF sensor and going specifically Speed Density based on the MAP sensor and throttle position. FoMoCo EEC-IV is believe uses the MAF sensor and throttle position primarily for determining fuel injector pulse width firing of the injector. Your thoughts one this subject please. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Thanks. I was thinking of using a 650. There is always the chance of future mods but using a 700-750 with my current setup would hurt me in what way? Bad throttle response? You’ll loose a small bit of crispness in the throttle response but with tuning its really minimal. Don’t get the idea EITHER size carb is going to be far better than the other in EITHER combo, as the engine needs more airflow or needs less it simply sucks more, or less thru the carbs venturies and the carb flows more, or less in either case you’ll rarely find your truly restricted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Grumpyvette: Aside from Carbs, I would like to get your thoughts as to the differences between MAP and Speed Density base fuel injection systems. I am told that the former is better? Some at the EFI Live sight folks are disabling the MAF sensor and going specifically Speed Density based on the MAP sensor and throttle position. FoMoCo EEC-IV is believe uses the MAF sensor and throttle position primarily for determining fuel injector pulse width firing of the injector. Your thoughts one this subject please. Thanks. OK first. Point. IM not the world’s best EFI programmer, AND anytime IM not a decent source ILL just refer you to a better one, if I can, as there’s no chance I want to B.S. anyone!. even I ask for help frequently......I prefer MAF as I think its a bit more flexible, and forgiving …. ID suggest you ask DOUG FLYNN on this SITE, http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showforum.php?fid/35/keyword/Fuel_Injection/ he’s HOLLEYS ENGINEER and TECH GUY, I think you’ll get more precise info than I can give you. the whole IDEA it to get you the best answer and in that case its refering you to an expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkach Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Okay grumpy looking for some tips on my timing. The motor is a 350 stock block and pistons. Ive got some world heads with 2.02 and 1.6 valves 1.6 roller rockers. 1 5/8 block hugger headers Hei dizzy with a mallory hyfire ignition system. My cam is a 278/280 duration. Im running a holly 4150 750cfm carb Eldebrock performer intake manifold. Behind the motor is a turbo400. Just got everything setup looking for a good place to start with my timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Okay grumpy looking for some tips on my timing. The motor is a 350 stock block and pistons. Ive got some world heads with 2.02 and 1.6 valves 1.6 roller rockers. 1 5/8 block hugger headers Hei dizzy with a mallory hyfire ignition system. My cam is a 278/280 duration. Im running a holly 4150 750cfm carb Eldebrock performer intake manifold. Behind the motor is a turbo400. Just got everything setup looking for a good place to start with my timing. ID suggest starting at 8-9 degrees at idle and full advance of 36-37 degrees at 3000-3200 rpm. that should allow easy starts and good torque durring accelleration with less chance of detonation. http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=232 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-rib-73-240z Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Grumpyvette One of my coworkers friend drag races his nova with out a alt because thats all he does is drag races it, i was told its because it causes less drag on the motor. now a couple days ago i was thinking while i was preping a supercharger case at work (its where i get most of my thinking done) if less drag was wanted why not use an electric water pump and only have the crankpully to the alt. Does that make sence? instead of having the belt go crank to alt to waterpump (or whatever order) just have crank to alt. or would that cause just as much drag? i was thinking just run a bigger alt, like a 150 amp one or something as aposed to a 80 or something. Sorry that i jump around a lot with my questions, i just randomly have thoughts and wonder/ponder. Thomas Gribble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Grumpyvette One of my coworkers friend drag races his nova with out a alt because thats all he does is drag races it, i was told its because it causes less drag on the motor. now a couple days ago i was thinking while i was preping a supercharger case at work (its where i get most of my thinking done) if less drag was wanted why not use an electric water pump and only have the crankpully to the alt. Does that make sence? instead of having the belt go crank to alt to waterpump (or whatever order) just have crank to alt. or would that cause just as much drag? i was thinking just run a bigger alt, like a 150 amp one or something as aposed to a 80 or something. Sorry that i jump around a lot with my questions, i just randomly have thoughts and wonder/ponder. Thomas Gribble your correct the water pump induces far more resistance to rotation than an altenator , and Ive seen guys run on the track without the alt, but it tends to be a problem if you run for long as even slightly low voltage in a battery will reduce the ignitions effective spark, and running a larger battery adds significant extra weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-rib-73-240z Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 your correct the water pump induces far more resistance to rotation than an altenator , and Ive seen guys run on the track without the alt, but it tends to be a problem if you run for long as even slightly low voltage in a battery will reduce the ignitions effective spark, and running a larger battery adds significant extra weight. oops i lost ya somewhere, or i miss typed my question. I was asking if you think running just and alt off the crank and an electric waterpump would be more "efficient". Then running one off the crank and and alternator, or would the cost of the electric waterpump outwiegh its worth compaired to the stock? I hope that makes more sence, im talking on a daily drivin car with an alt, the story about my coworkers nova was what gave me the idea. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 oops i lost ya somewhere, or i miss typed my question. I was asking if you think running just and alt off the crank and an electric waterpump would be more "efficient". Then running one off the crank and and alternator, or would the cost of the electric waterpump outwiegh its worth compaired to the stock? I hope that makes more sence, im talking on a daily drivin car with an alt, the story about my coworkers nova was what gave me the idea. Thomas Converting the rotating belts energy from the spinning crank, into electricity with the alt, and the electricity back into rotating energy to drive the water pump, is bound to reduce efficiency over just using the belt to drive the water pump. Besides electric water pumps rarely flow enough water to cool as effectively as the better belt driven water pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-rib-73-240z Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Converting the rotating belts energy from the spinning crank, into electricity with the alt, and the electricity back into rotating energy to drive the water pump, is bound to reduce efficiency over just using the belt to drive the water pump. Besides electric water pumps rarely flow enough water to cool as effectively as the better belt driven water pumps. Sweet thats what i was basicly wondering, thanks. Was just a random thought i had and wanted to find out if it was worth it ya know? Nothing but polishing at work and its borign so all i do is think all day causes ideas and the like to accur so then i gatta ask. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Converting the rotating belts energy from the spinning crank, into electricity with the alt, and the electricity back into rotating energy to drive the water pump, is bound to reduce efficiency over just using the belt to drive the water pump. Besides electric water pumps rarely flow enough water to cool as effectively as the better belt driven water pumps. I'll add that I've seen enough people with v8's purchase reverse-flow pumps that were not "labelled" as such, and wonder why they have sub-par cooling efficiency. Make sure whatever "high-flow design" pump you purchase, it follows the correct standard. AND, it's much harder to turn a loaded alternator than it is to turn a water pump, so I also vouch for the belt driven system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zfan1 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Grumpy, Thanks for the tip, was the needle and seat. I cannot believe I did not look there instead of everywhere else. I have been laid low by an appendectomy. Damn surgery has killed my car fun. Have one other question, you seem to be good at finding deals. I have a friend that is need of an oil pan for his ford, the part number is canton 15-670, I have heard that you can pick up an oil pan for alot cheaper but only thing I could find was a proform pan for 160.00, you know of anything cheaper or should I jump on it. I am trying to help him get his car running, so it's a gift but money is tight right now. Just trying to save a buck or 2. Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=30720&line=MIL http://www.kevko.net/ford.htm http://www.flatlanderracing.com/index.html (Oil Pans/ Accessories)(Oil Pans/Accessories - ProLine ) ($69?) I don,t do much FORD stuff. but these guys usually have good prices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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