computer for zxt motor, to many choices

[lowdown]

Well the plan was going with the megasquirt setup, but I am tempted by a used SDS setup. What do yall suggest, i'm a computer geek so i'm not afraid of most setup, just wanted to see how others felt on different brands, etc.

 

Thanks

Phil

[JSM]

Budget should be on the top priority list. I've read and seen some problems w/ MS, but you cant beat the price.

 

I think no matter what support should also be a top choice. On this site, MS is very well supported, but I think the learning curve is also much higher.

 

From reading, the Wolf system also seems to be up there w/ support and features on this site. At least one admin support it's which is a plus.

 

I have an uninstalled Tec3. Don't have it installed yet, but I know it is one of the top of the line units. I got a very good deal on it so I almost had to get it. I"m still in the collecting parts phase of my build.

[Tony D]

What you plan on doing with the car and it's intended function should top the 'priority' list IMO, and the budget is based on that.

 

It makes absolutely no sense to get a bare bones ECU that won't fit expanding demands later on, and it doesn't make any sense to buy a top of the line 5000$+ Motec unit for something that does 1000 miles a year driving on and off the trailer at a drag strip and making causual drives on the occasional weekend.

 

You have to know what you want to DO with the car, before you start deciding on what components you want. BIG mistake assembling components wihtout regard to what you want to actually DO.

 

We ran a car at LeMons last year on an MS1 with 8X8 fuel tables and no spark control. It ran BETTER than the stock ECU, and proved rock reliable in two crashes that would have disabled the stock system (broke the distributor and would have totalled the AFM in each case...)

 

If we even has MS-n-S on the car running N/A for spark control, the second crash would have done us in as the CAS was shot and nobody had a spare...but if it was a simple distributor swap, we had that, and so did the parts store in town. The MS is cheap, and upgradeable quite a bit for very little $.

 

I have an SDS that will likely never go on any of my cars because it's N/A ONLY, and does not control spark. Can't upgrade it. It's set at what the original purchaser set it up for, period.

 

Got a great TEC2 system off the Bonneville car, but.....

 

Point being, know what you want to do, and if you THINK you will REALISTICALLY do something in STEPS/STAGES consider buying the EFI system that will best suit your end use.

 

Frankly, the stuff coming out is cheaper and BETTER every year. I would not spend high dollars on something if you are going in steps. Chances are good the price will come down on something by the time you get to the 'next step' and can get a better system for less, with more capability.

 

There are 'learning' systems out there now, that have OEM style long and short term fuel trim self-tuning that are available for under $1500 as an ECU.

 

Frankly, SDS has lagged and unless you have a dedicated race application where you KNOW you won't be changing much later on, I'd skip that option. For the money there are better options available.

 

If you are stuck on the SDS/MS choice, I'd go with MS due to low cost/universal compatibility. The setup is documented here well enough to get you going, and the expansion possibilites with the system are almost endless. Want to go V8 later? Change configuration parameters. Not on SDS. Not on TEC2 (much to my chagrin...) Want to go EDIS? Same Same...

 

But know what you want to do. it will make all your choices later much more focused.

[ozconnection]

Tony, when would suggest a top line Motec ECU is appropriate?

 

Reading what you've said, one could get away with a fairly basic ECU for a race car because of the risk of crashing and the availability of spares? I would have thought that a highly specified track machine would warrant the finest components available, including ECU's and that it was important to carry some spares if the chance of breaking something was high.

 

On the other hand, would you run a top of the line Motec on your daily driver? Does that kind of vehicle deserve that kind of ECU?

 

What do you think?

[RTz]

Reading what you've just said you can get away with a fairly basic ECU for a race car because you expected that you might crash the thing?

 

That's not quite how I read him. Part of his point is that some of the fancy-ness can be a waste on a track car. One example, some EMS's have a horde of idle control parameters... not terribly important to a race car. Another, large fuel/ignition tables... a 40x16 table is most likely a waste, especially if the torque curve is reasonably smooth. Etc, Etc, Etc. On the other hand, these types of features can be very desirable on a street car, in terms of drivability.

 

Different uses, different needs.

[ozconnection]

Yes, that makes sense.

 

So it's the wide range of driving conditions encountered on the street that warrants the top end of ECU's, a race car runs at WOT most of the time and doesn't see stop/start city driving with the A/C on etc. Ok, fair enough.

 

So would a Taurus have a higher specification ECU than a Formula One car because it encounters a greater diversity of driving conditions? Could you compete at that level with a MS, for example? Just curious?

[RTz]

So would a Taurus have a higher specification ECU than a Formula One car...

 

Define 'specification'.

[ozconnection]

When I mentioned 'specification', I was referring to the list of features offered by the manufacturer. It would include the processor and its speed of calculation, its inputs/outputs which effects its engine control capability, its interface type and installation process.

 

Yes, there may be some overkill with the range of features supplied by some of the more expensive units out there but isn't it also true that those units offer a higher degree of tuneability and accuracy than some of the less expensive units? Ultimately, isn't that the feature you'd be buying the ECU for?

 

I can't imagine running a highly stressed engine powerfully and reliably with a cheap, low resolution computer for too long. I agree with Tony that the money spent on such a unit should reflect its use. But if I'd spent tens of thousands on a stout engine, I would want, at least, the insurance offered to me by an advanced aftermarket ECU and its potential to tune the engine correctly without catastrophic (and expensive) failure.

 

Just maybe I have it all wrong in my head (as usual...its a southern hemisphere thing!).

[RTz]

I can't imagine running a highly stressed engine powerfully and reliably with a cheap, low resolution computer for too long.

 

As long as it provides the right fuel/spark consistently and reliably, it won't hurt a thing.

 

 

But if I'd spent tens of thousands on a stout engine, I would want, at least, the insurance offered to me by an advanced aftermarket ECU and its potential to tune the engine correctly without catastrophic (and expensive) failure.

 

Its sounds like you're making the assumption that a minimalist or budget oriented ECU is automatically less capable of providing proper ignition and fuel. In some cases, you'd be correct, but not all. It just 'depends'.

 

I'm not trying to tell you that MS is just as appropriate as Motec. But, what I am saying is... just because a system has less features, or costs less, doesn't mean it won't do a terrific job for YOUR application. To buy a more expensive system for features you'll never use is not the best use of your budget. A somewhat facetious example... SDS is pretty bare bones... yet its 'just right' for a small aircraft. Useful load and RPM are very narrow, and transitional response is not relevant. Nor is idle control. Anti-lag? Buttery smooth rev limiter? Launch control? Who cares? So on and for forth. Point is, it won't run any better with a $25K EFI Technology system. Don't confuse increased cost with better for your needs.

 

 

Just maybe I have it all wrong in my head (as usual...its a southern hemisphere thing!).

 

Hey... I like you guy's. Some of the best engine management stuff comes from your back yard!

[260DET]

Tony, when would suggest a top line Motec ECU is appropriate?

 

Reading what you've said, one could get away with a fairly basic ECU for a race car because of the risk of crashing and the availability of spares? I would have thought that a highly specified track machine would warrant the finest components available, including ECU's and that it was important to carry some spares if the chance of breaking something was high.

 

On the other hand, would you run a top of the line Motec on your daily driver? Does that kind of vehicle deserve that kind of ECU?

 

What do you think?

 

 

In my experience the ECU is a very high priority for a car which is driven on the road and does sprints regularly, like mine. For very good reasons like fuel economy, reliability, driveability, engine preservation, tune integrity and so on.

 

Mine has a MoTec M600, for the simple reason that in the long run it is worth it. It drives like it has a factory fitted ECU, its perfect. The worst part of course is the initial outlay but after a year or two you get over that Unfortunately for our North American friends MoTecs sell for 'high' prices there, not a cheap exercise in AU though.

 

But there are cheaper options that are good although the right starting point is a locating good tuner and the then considering ECU's he uses and recommends.

 

So, tuner first, then ECU.

[lowdown]

Sounds like MS is the best for the weekend warrior, as it can upgrade, the flexability, and cost. Will be doing upgrades on occasion and it can grow as I do. haha