Administrators BRAAP Posted December 9, 2008 Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2008 Okity dokity. I have a HybridZ project on the drawing board that I want take off the board and get in the shop, ASAP. With my other projects on the drawing board, I feel I’m getting a bit confused over the direction I want to take. The projects on the drawing board, in no particular order or priority; 1) Single plane V-8 Crankshaft; http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=139545 2) Project FUZZY, Super-charged SBC 350 w/T-56; http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=115326 3) Installing a V-8 in my Z-32; http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=742283 4) And more than a few other non Z related hobbies. This urgent HybridZ project is my current daily driver, ’93 N/A Z-32 coupe. It didn’t take long to learn the Z-32 is not a “reliable” car to own, especially as a daily driver. This particular engine has now had a total of 9 OE Nissan injectors swapped in since new. 6 of which from the previous owner, the last three in the past year since I’ve owned the car, (swapping in used OE injectors, new cost more than I want to spend on this engine), and more are giving me fits currently! The next time I open the hood to replace these failing injector the VG30DE will still be attached to that injector as I remove it! No more swapping injectors on an engine that just doesn’t turn my crank, so to speak. With injectors failing right now, that time is now. All along the plan has been to install the VH45DE from my Q-45 into this Z-32; http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117998 Being anal and particularly fussy about even the smallest details with my personal projects, I planned to take the time to do this conversion, end result to be OE but with a few personal enhancements such as custom intake, etc. in appearance and function. I figured it would take me at least 9 mos to a year. With the latest injector woes my desire is to remove the VG30DE post haste and I’m not quite ready to put this car down for a year or so. With that in mind, I’m opening up my Hybrid power plant options beyond the VH45DE. VH45DE; The VH45DE has been done and those that have done were not just a quick bolt in and drive conversion. Hope to mock up my VH45DE in my Z-32 V-8 mock up mule by New Years. (Will have the VH45DE out of the Q-ship by this weekend.) Gen I SBC; In dropping a mock up SBC in my Z-32 V-8 mock up mule, it became painfully obvious that a traditional SBC is not a simple bolt-in-&-drive either. I will revisit this as I have a sweetheart of a Supercharged SBC 350 and T-56 already, that is SURE to fix the this cars current lack of torque… Gen III/IV SBC, (LSx derivative); I have an ’01 LM7 5.3 out my wifes Suburban sitting on the shop floor, hope to mock it up in the Z-32 V-8 mock up mule by New years. (I told RonTyler he could have the 5.3 if he wants to use it for any of his own projects. He mentioned his 2 door 510?! I’d like to see him do that one.) SBF; Something else I want to consider is the SBF 302, more than likely with boost. (I have a Eaton M-112 super charger sitting on the shelf ready to “blow” a V-8) The front sump of the SBF just may work out to my advantage in the Z-32 engine bay and the lighter weight nicer shifting T-5 would be an upgrade over the heavy Z-32 5 speed as well. I have a bare 302 block, just need a pair of heads and an oil pan for mock up… Anyone near-by have a pair of core SBF heads and an oil pan? Nissan was not as nice in designing the Z-32 as they were with S-30 when it came to engine bay space! The Z-32 engine bay is short in length and the friggin crossmember and rack are so wide, right in the middle of the bay taking up almost all of the space a typical oil pan sump would reside! That is the biggest obstacle I see in this endeavor. I'll post pics as I mock up the various power-plants over the next few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted December 9, 2008 Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2008 L20B? Sorry... you can delete my poor humor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted December 9, 2008 Author Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2008 L20B? Sorry... you can delete my poor humor Can I use your L-20b? If you mock up the long block, I'll set it in the engine bay for pics. L-26 in the engine bay of the Z-32 mock up mule... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 have you given any thought whatsoever to a VG30 No D????? The earliest IMSA cars were running strong with boosted SOHC VGs, and it is a *tad* simpler to work on. It is almost a dumb suggestion, but something about those cylinder heads appeals to me......... and besides, the "almost dumb" suggestions are sometimes the simplest ones you never thought of. If its your daily driver, a lightly boosted VG30 SOHC would suffice until you get the V8 in at least... Edit You SICK MAN!!! Flat-tops, in a Z32.... *shakes*head* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vq35? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted December 9, 2008 Author Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2008 This car is heavy, as such I prefer to add a couple more cylinders, mainly due the increased displacement/torque that accompanies those cylinders. Goal is at least 300 streetable crank HP in N/A trim. Leaves me the option of boost in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 You sound torn, then.. do you want something to get into the car and get it to DD status with rapidity and ease, or do you want to build the car?? If you want to build the car, I see no reason not to go ahead and start shoehorning the VH into it. (Or, if you MUST go domestic, whichever V8. ) If you want a good, quick way to get the car driving smoothly that is LESS complex than the VG30DETT, I would be willing to bet that you could set up a boosted (or non?) VG30E quickly and simply enough. It seems, to ME, that just about any other hyrbridZ32 is a chore, and essentially negate the possibility of remotely resembling "quick" or "easy" when it comes to the conversion. MAYBE the VQ would be along the same lines, but I would tend to think it would be MORE complex.. hence my suggestion to take a brief, short lived step backwards in time. Besides, it'll be good to have photos out there for posterity's sake. OMG SOHC 300ZX, WTF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted December 9, 2008 Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2008 Three words... ell. ess. ex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I'm thinking something more appropriate for Paul's years on this earth. Steam: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted December 9, 2008 Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I vote for a V8 with the M-112, it would be fairly unique and look cool. haha L26 + Flat tops in a Z32... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCchris Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 L-26 in the engine bay of the Z-32 mock up mule... Group buy for these mounts? Oh, I vote for the VH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted December 10, 2008 Author Administrators Share Posted December 10, 2008 You sound torn, then.. do you want something to get into the car and get it to DD status with rapidity and ease, or do you want to build the car??... Yes, I am torn. I want get into the car and get it back to DD status ASAP, no interested in a “project†Z-32, unless another shell reveals itself.. …It seems, to ME, that just about any other hyrbridZ32 is a chore, and essentially negate the possibility of remotely resembling "quick" or "easy" when it comes to the conversion. MAYBE the VQ would be along the same lines, but I would tend to think it would be MORE complex.. hence my suggestion to take a brief, short lived step backwards in time. Besides, it'll be good to have photos out there for posterity's sake. OMG SOHC 300ZX, WTF... You are spot on. The Z-32 IS a chore to Hybrid, period! Johns recommendation of the VQ is probably the only V-6 option I would consider. It is already pretty close to my desired N/A power goal, probably fits better, should be lighter. For some odd reason, the VQ just does not turn my crank. On paper the VQ is an incredible power-plant, has a sexxy exotic exhaust note, yadda yadda yadda, but I have no attraction to it for some reason. The VG30E, well, I’ve got one here, yes they are quite a tidy lightweight package, I would love to use one in some project in the future, just not in a car this bulky and heavy. A pair of them inline in the engine bay of an S-30? Hells yeah! I'm thinking something more appropriate for Paul's years on this earth. Steam: John, I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filmjay Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I say flat-plane crank for a SBC. But...because I want someone else to do it and work the bugs out...then sell me one. Seriously though...it's NEVER been done afaik. Not only would that be uber-cool, you might have something for a little cottage industry there. I say, why not have your project give a little something back if it can? ...and I was dead serious when I said I'd donate my 4.0L Northstar for the project, or buy one if you got it worked out. You anywhere near Milwaukie? I should be up that way sometime after the first of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted December 10, 2008 Author Administrators Share Posted December 10, 2008 Alright, yanked the VH45DE out of the Q-ship tonight. Cut off the upper and lower front core support of the car, unbolted the engine and trans crossmembers and removed the entire assy including steering rack, etc from the car out through the front using my tractor. Ron Tyler was present and helped in the final stages of the removal. Set the engine/trans on the shop floor, got down off the tractor, stood there at the shop door with Ron and we both had the same reaction as we stared at the VH45DE sitting on the floor! “OMG!” This thing is physically HUGE! It is wider than it is long and tall! The VH45DE has now been dubbed, "GIGANTOR"! Tomorrow I’ll take some pics with the LM7 5.3 next to it, and hope to weigh it, finally putting to rest the VH45DE vs VG30DE weight debate, (claims elsewhere on the internet of the VH45DE being upwards of 100 lbs lighter than the VG30DE)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted December 10, 2008 Author Administrators Share Posted December 10, 2008 I say flat-plane crank for a SBC. But...because I want someone else to do it and work the bugs out...then sell me one. Seriously though...it's NEVER been done afaik. Not only would that be uber-cool, you might have something for a little cottage industry there. I say, why not have your project give a little something back if it can? ...and I was dead serious when I said I'd donate my 4.0L Northstar for the project, or buy one if you got it worked out. You anywhere near Milwaukie? I should be up that way sometime after the first of the year. The Northstar is an attractive power-plant, for the exact reasons you mentioned in another thread, especially for a Single Plane V-8 Crank project. The tooling issues you mentioned elsewhere has me a bit concerned though. Would you PM me the details regarding the specialized tooling? We are approx 30 minutes east of Milwaukie. Let us know when you are up and we'd be glad to have you out. We love talking Z cars. Take care, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filmjay Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted December 11, 2008 Author Administrators Share Posted December 11, 2008 Spent some time stripping the VH45DE down to just the engine, removed the alternator and its bracketry, A/C pump and its bracketry, P/S pump and its bracketry, the transmission and flex plate, starter. With Rons help, weighed it! Came in at exactly 500.6 lbs. Weighed an N/A VG30DE on the same scale in the same trim approx a year ago at 442.2 lbs, so the VH would add approx 50-60 lbs give or take. For a car that weighs in the 3500 lbs region, another 50-60 lbs wont be noticed with the additional torque. (Oh, and the VH45DE still weighed 30 lbs MORE than the similar equipped VG30DETT on the same scale, busting the myth of the VH being lighter than the VG30DETT...) GIGANTOR as removed from the Q-ship with everything still attached! All accy removed during the weighing. Then I weighed my LM7 (GM 5.3, LSx derivative), that I removed from my wifes '01 Suburban the week of Thanksgiving, in essentially the exact same trim as the VH was weighed with motor mounts, exhaust manifolds intake w/throttle body, fuel rail, injectors, etc. The iron block aluminum head GM 5.3 weighed in at 516.8 lbs. Removed the iron exhaust manifolds and it weighed in at 490.4. With tubular shorty headers should weigh within a couple pounds of the VH45DE at 500. The aluminum block LS engine should be approx 50 lbs lighter is my guess, putting the LSx at approx the same weight as the N/A VG30DE. Same as above minus IRON exhaust manifolds; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 What about a vg33et? maybe bore it out to 3.5L and put a holset on it with 25lb's of boost, that should put you somewhere around 300WHP while still being usable on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger280zx Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Why not put the M112 on the VH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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