2eighTZ4me Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I have a pair of 5 point 3" harnesses that are dated back to 1996. I cannot run them on my car due to the rules. Is it illegal to sell or use them in a street driven car? I'd like to sell them to someone that can use them, but I don't want to be "outside the law". This is not an ad to sell them - it is a post to see if that is an acceptable practice. I will post an ad when I get my new ones and have all the pieces of the old ones out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondersparrow Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I dont know about the legality of using them on the streets, but you may find another racer that is interested in using them for a passenger seat for the purposes of track tours and on-track instruction. In these cases current certified belts are not required as it is not an all out racing situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240z!!! Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 i dont know about legality either but i garantee that those harnesses are 1000 times safer than the stock 240z lap belts from the 70's and 10 times safer than the 280z belts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DREW RBZ Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Not sure about your State laws but here in Ontario Canada The Highway Traffic Act states that no person shall remove/alter any part of the seat belt assembly (oem) except for repair. I would venture that this may be addressed by your Deparment of Transport. If you are going to install a harness regardless you should also be very careful as to how it is mounted and also have some form of rollover protection as the harness will not allow your body to twist or move downward away from the roof which would cause serious injury or death if the roof crushes in. Also the problem I have seen on some installs is that the bar itself can come into contact with your melon in the event of a crash which of course would be a very bad thing. Some harnesses are also poorly anchored to the chassis of the vehicle or shoulder harnesses mounted incorrectly which would cause compression of the spine if involved in an accident. Most harnesses are designed to be used with a rollover bar or full cage with the use of helmet for track use...Maybe some others have more info about the rules in various states? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyhog22056 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Would you trust 12 year old belts for yourself??? not on a track or street, and you shouldnt even consider letting a passenger use them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2eighTZ4me Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 Would you trust 12 year old belts for yourself??? not on a track or street, and you shouldnt even consider letting a passenger use them either. As a matter of fact, I probably would. It sure as hell beats 30+ year old seatbelts that offer half - if not quarter the restraining capability as a 5 point harness. Not sure how the DOT lets stuff like this go by. If it's mandated for racing, it should be mandated for road use. Change your belts every 2 years. Most track day events will allow you to use factory restraints - I'd feel far more confident with a 12 year old 5 point harness than a 35 year old lap belt with perhaps a shoulder belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 When we bought our 73 240z, it was 35 years old and the seat belts did not even work. The only one that actually did work was the passenger lap belt. The drivers side and the two diagonal chest belts had broken ratchets, or were frayed to a hanging thread. I'm not sure what our laws are here in California, but surely the laws include "working properly". A "SCCA" approved role bar (we bought ours from MSA http://www.thezstore.com/), (AutoPower http://www.autopowerindustries.com/ is a major manufacture but won't sell direct), is the best way to get good mounting points. And will be needed if you want to do any real racing. We found, on our 73, that the factory mounts at the floor have an extra plate welded in that wraps around. Since it is best for the belt to pull straight on the bracket, we drilled a new hole in the side of the drive shaft tunnel, staying in this factory seat belt plate. For the outer point, we used the factory location as it was already in a good location. Our SCCA role bar (from MSA) included a welded in bar for the purpose of mounting the shoulder belts at the correct angle. This leaves the Submarine strap. A 5-Point Harness expects a hole in the seat cushion (all real racing seats have this) for this strap to drop down through. We have stock seats and don't want to cut a hole (the 35 year old seat will probably crumble). You don't really have a choice here with the 5-point. Our free 5-Point expired before we could finish anyway. So, we will get a 6-Point, which I think is the new rule anyway. The submarine belt has 2 straps, running from the buckle, down under each thigh and to mount somewhere comfortable with it's own bolts. We are thinking of going to the massive bolts for the waist belt. note: we don't have a 6-point yet, nor have we made it to the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyhog22056 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Be sure the straps that go around your legs are TIGHT, somewhere i saw a picture of a guy wearing the 6 point harness and it was slightly loose, and not adjusted to fit right. upon crashing into a wall his body stopped but his family jewels didnt, busted right through the sack....ouch http://briskoda.net/motorsport-discussion/h-s-caution-multipoint-harnesses-warning-explicit-gruseome-pics/129912/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The problem with most racing belts is they are not compliant with FMVSS sections regarding passenger restraint, and are therefore not 'legal' for use in road vehicles. I know Schroth makes DOT/FMVSS complaint harnesses, others probably do as well. It depends on what your state vehicle code references as criteria for roadworthy operation. Some states specifically defer to 'federal standards' others are much more vague and in those cases it could be legal to use them on the street. With the mounting caveats mentioned above, also realize that a seat that does not secure you laterally is all but useless, and if there is any foam to compress it makes even the tightest 'race harness' a moot point---you can slip out from it under seat compression and literally be thrown from the vehicle (this happened at a land speed event at 100mph when a stock bench seat in a vehicle compressed enough to allow the driver to move in a manner that slipped a couple of harness straps free and bounced him about the interior till he was dead and quite unsightly...) Belts can be recertified, but it usually costs near as much as a new set. They are throwaway items. If someone wants to use throwaway parts for their street car, take steps to insure you are not making any claims for suitability for application and let them know that so you don't get litigated upon when Johnny Honda's parents come looking for the guy who sold their son 'racing seatbelts that failed' when his Accord went into the tree at 132mph... And thanks to John C's post in another thread, it is FMVSS 209 that I refer to, and since I mentioned Schroth, John posted their installation instructions there, and on the obligatory 'litigation avoidance pages' of their installation manual you can see their warnings about their racing belts and street usage: http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/Competition_Instructions.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2eighTZ4me Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Tony - you are quite the wordsmith. Always enjoy reading your "no B.S." posts. I will look into the Schroth harnesses as well, as Summit Racing screwed up my order royally, and I have to return the harnesses. They even pulled two harnesses of different color and different part #'s. Good thing the first track day isn't until mid March at Road Atlanta. I'll put the old harnesses up for sale for a steal when I get the new ones installed (with disclaimer, of course) and see if anyone bites. Worse case, you can use them to hang your latest hunting conquest from the tree..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY C Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I don't Care How Out of Date That Becomes ^^^^^ I'de still wear it like spandex... MMMMMMMMmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yeah I'm spoiled, I can drive by Diest or Crow and pick up new harnesses. And custom stuff can be sewen while-I-wait if the day is slow... And for the Cost of Crow harnesses new...it's almost a no-brainer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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