capt_furious Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I've had a problem since doing my L28 swap early last year, the ignition would occasionally not turn the starter. The problem has got progressively worse until now, I can't get it to turn at all. Shorting across the terminals will engage the solenoid and spin the starter, so the fault must be wiring. I've checked both ignition interlock fuses, and they're good. The interlock currently doesn't even exist, as the trans in the car doesn't have a spot for one. I pulled the switch and taped off the terminals for it during the swap. While we(auxilary and I) had the original problem getting the starter to turn during the swap, we tried with the terminals connected to each other and apart to no avail. Putting the ignition into ACC mode will engage a relay somewhere up under the dash, I can hear it click. Putting the ignition in START would up until now usually get a second relay click, although it was spotty. The second click usually coincided with the starter turning. At some point in this car's life, it seems the ignition had the usual issues with weak signal to the starter, and someone put in a relay underhood. It was working until the swap, when we found that directly connecting the starter wire - instead of sending it through the relay - would turn the starter fairly reliably. I get nothing from the car now, no second relay click, no starter turn. Is there a way to simply bypass everything, wire the ignition switch directly to the starter, and have it work that way? I'd use a relay to prevent burning out the switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Quick update, I managed to get her started by jumping the battery to the solenoid terminal with the key in the RUN position, so there's definitely a missing/weak link in the wiring between the switch and the starter. I checked all of the fuses. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Situation is well in hand, I've decided to wire up a guarded switch on the console for the starter. I'm running it through the relay(which I've confirmed does work) and I've got an inline fuse that's going to the switch. Should be kinda neat once I'm finished. Put key in run, flip cover, hit switch, close cover once it catches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Got the switch wired up directly, car starts and runs now. Not sure why the relay's not working, putting a multimeter to it shows the output wire at 12 V. Maybe the relay IS bad. At any rate, I found a work-around. I'd still be interested in why the ignition switch / wiring failed in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Heehee, sounds like you have gotten some good advice so far. Not sure if you need anyone else to help........ Volt ohm meter the line. From what I've read, could be anything form the ignition switch to a bad connector. But the guy previously seems to be better equiped to handle your problem;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhp123166 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 That's what I did years ago after the same thing happened to me. I just wired in an aftermarket relay and everything has worked hunky dory for years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 I'm really liking the new switch, it's actually solved the hard start problem, as well. The stock starter wiring was sapping so much power that the ignition had difficulty lighting off. The novelty of having a separate switch for the starter(many exotics have them) is no longer lost on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I am virtually positive that the relay has nothing to do with the starter circuit on our cars. I had this identical problem on my 87 Subaru.. It would frequently give me a click, click, click, then finally third or fourth try--Start! eventually the starter died, and I replaced it with a JY unit. The next day it was total DOA again, so I had to use the screwdriver to get around. I solved it by ADDING a starter relay. I always had 12V to my solenoid wire when I hit the key, but it still wouldn't engage the solenoid enough to get it to perform its switching function.. so I put in a four prong bosch relay, with fused power tap straight off the battery, signaled by the original solenoid wire. The output wire of the relay went to the starter solenoid terminal, and I never had a starting issue again. The relay took the place of me and my screwdriver. I can't see what (in your situation) involved the main relay; but I may be getting my wiring harnesses confused, and your 74 (with its interlock system) may well be different from my 75 and ITS interlock system. Personally I would far rather be using a relay on this circuit than a switch in the cabin... but that is an argument to which there IS no end. I would say it goes without question that adding the relay is the safer, "better" route, but Nissan switched the load through the cabin so it is hard to argue that a pushbutton is "unsafe." Personally I don't care much for it, but don't have a problem either... I would simply never install one into one of my cars unless I also had a bluetooth wireless "key" like late model nissans do.. and when I did, the pushbutton would operate a relay under the hood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 I suppose I didn't make it clear that I wasn't using the factory stock starter relay(which I could no longer hear clicking away somewhere down by the passenger footwell...when I stopped hearing it, I knew I was screwed), but a unit under the hood mounted near the passenger frame rail that someone added on before I got the car, and was working to crank the car before my swap. I tried using it with my added switch to no avail, only direct wiring the switch seems to work. I'm betting a new relay would fix the problem, which leads me to ask, what amperage relay should I use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240z!!! Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 i think it is your key switch...which is on the backside of your ignition....my buddy had the same problem and we switched his out and it worked perfect....in the mean time he just hooked up a push button that was wired to the cylinoid and evertime he wanted to start it he just hit the button and it came right on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 There is no factory starter relay. There is a main EFI relay that clicks on with the key, and if I am not mistaken clicks OFF in the START position and back on in RUN. The problem lies in eventual buildup of resistance in the solder joint and wiring connections in the starting circuit. In the end, you are left with a vehicle than cannot communicate enough amperage at 12VDC to get the job done at the solenoid. It puts 12VDC there, enough to check voltage.. but not enough to even push the solenoid contacts together. However, this minimal amperage is MORE than sufficient to power a small bosch four prong relay, which can switch battery power to your solenoid terminal. You basically have a wire coming off of your pushbutton switch, going straight to the starter right?? It doesn't matter if you hooked up that wire from the EFI relay or from whatever other 12V switched power source. What matters is that you get 12VDC to the starter with the key in the ON or START position. Relay amperage doesn't really matter, I don't think it even sees 10 amps. What I would do is get a 30 or whatever amp relay, and protect the circuit with the fuse you add. Start with a 10 amp, and if that doesn't blow then your fine. You could step down to 7.5 or 5 and see if that blows under normal use.. but 10 is sufficiently small to be safe, and almost certainly more than enough to start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Relay amperage doesn't really matter, I don't think it even sees 10 amps. What I would do is get a 30 or whatever amp relay, and protect the circuit with the fuse you add. Start with a 10 amp, and if that doesn't blow then your fine. You could step down to 7.5 or 5 and see if that blows under normal use.. but 10 is sufficiently small to be safe, and almost certainly more than enough to start it. I've got a 30 amp inline fuse in the switch circuit at the moment. Seems to work without issues. The switch itself is rated at 30 amps. I'll grab a new relay and try it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 To alleviate some strain off my ignition switch I put a Ford external solenoid (basically a big relay) on my 81 and it's worked great. Definitely made starting easier and the Ford solenoid will kick over with voltage as low as 6-7V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Here's a shot of it...I'm thinking of moving it to the middle blank out plate between the choke and defogger lights. (Yes, I know my interior is filthy, it's not a priority...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Here's a shot of it...I'm thinking of moving it to the middle blank out plate between the choke and defogger lights. (Yes, I know my interior is filthy, it's not a priority...) Dirty Z cars are driven too much to be worked on or cleaned often. Props for the dirt! LOL BTW, I'd move the water bottle... Makes me nervous with all that wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 BTW, I'd move the water bottle... Makes me nervous with all that wiring. Geez, I'm an idiot. It's been there since I got back from UAE in July. That hadn't even occurred to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Meh, as long as its got a relatively low mineral content...... I *do* like the switch with the elite weapons-grade safety cover though. touche.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Did some further fiddling this weekend, managed to get a momentary-on toggle switch for under the guard, and moved the whole thing to the blank-out plate between the Choke and Defogger lights. Much easier operation now, I don't have to be careful about letting the starter engage for longer than it should and tear up the flywheel as a result. Multiple tries at cranking (if it doesn't catch at first) are easier since I don't have to flip the guard closed after every attempt. The blank-out plate it was previously installed on was actually a loose fit in the hole, and I'd have to hold it down every time I flipped up the guard. Not fun. The hole I used was already there when I bought the car, so I didn't feel so bad about making another if it meant I'd get everything working the way I wanted. I'll get a photo tonight. Part of me wants to rip out the whole dash and rig everything back up with chrome toggles and color coded guards on an aircraft-style panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 And viola. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFive Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 So there hasn't been a solution to this aside from the work-around? I have the same problem. I replaced the relay under the dash. It's a double relay, actually. It controls the fuel pump and...uh...I don't remember. Anyways, replacing it did nothing. I'm still in click, click, click stage and having to start it with a screwdriver. Not very good for dates, you know? But I don't want to install a new switch. I want it to work the way it's supposed to work. I checked the wiring from the little yellow wire connected to the solenoid all the way back to the firewall and into the big green connector. It's fine. It's something between the big green connector and the key. Help?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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