260zShooter Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Thanks for posting that mate - I was completely lost of where to actually get rack ends for the stock rack! Just get a new rack!!! When my car had the stock 195/70-14 tyres on it PS was completely unwarranted, however, when I changed offsets and ran bigger tyres the steering effort became quite heavy at low speeds - the car went from feeling like PS really wasnt required to being something that would be nice to have! I was running 205's and 215's on the front of my Z with about a 30mm increase in track - there is people with a lot wider tyres and track increases than that on this board !!! Thats exactly what I was thinking too. I have a 260Z and am running wider tires with ZG flares. Turning the beast can be tough. Add PS will make like much more enjoyable. It will also help to keep the steering wheel from jarring out of your hands on some of our rough roads. I'm not worried about loosing any horsepower, a Skyline RB25 will be running my ps pump. Not to mention this is HybridZ isn't it. Why not make the stering hybrid too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islanddozer Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 you mean these ACDELCO Part # 45A0312 {#88910146} ROD,STRG Linkage INR TIE -; INNER $29.99$0.00$29.99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260zShooter Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I decided to go with the Volvo S80 inner tie rods. I found them on Ebay for $40 a pair. I believe the Camry inner TR are incorrect. I went to O'Riliey's and had the pull them off the shelf. They looked as long as the stock Forester TRE's. I will make them work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Okay, So I read this, and is there a simple bolt on solution? The Subi rack, Volvo s80 inners, and ZXT ends right? but with the S80 inners you have to modify the rack, correct? I'd like a solution with as little modification as possible, also, has anyone looked at the Z33 racks? Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 I decided to go with the Volvo S80 inner tie rods. I found them on Ebay for $40 a pair. I believe the Camry inner TR are incorrect. I went to O'Riliey's and had the pull them off the shelf. They looked as long as the stock Forester TRE's. I will make them work for me. I dont think they are, I saw them with my own two eyes and measured them, but I was told that the rack end was from a wide-body early 90's Camry, I will go and grab it and take some pics and make sure of the part - maybe could be different as it's an AUS unit and not a US unit, will get pics! But, curious - you went to a place that had both S80 and Wide-Body Camry rack ends on the shelf? that is cool! parts places I go to locally have about 15 different racks ends on the shelf (if I am lucky) - if I had a parts place like that locally I would spend an entire day in their stock room trying to locate a rack end that would suit !!! Okay, So I read this, and is there a simple bolt on solution? The Subi rack, Volvo s80 inners, and ZXT ends right? but with the S80 inners you have to modify the rack, correct? No, the S80's require you to trim the ends a touch or they bottom out on the Subaru rack, but if you use the S70 rack ends they will bolt up perfectly to the Subaru rack - but they are longer and have a different thread on the tie-rod end side than the S80 - need (from memory) an 9-10cm tie-rod end to make that work! Alternative is to extend the thread in the Subaru rack, But to do this proprely, you shouldn't be just pulling out your tap and die set, should be getting in done on a lathe I would think, which means pulling the rack apart! this is what ezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz did and from memory he advised special tools were required! Sorry - I got side tracked with other bits and pieces and sorta left this one hanging! Without a proper conclusion!!! I will get some pics together of the S70 and "Camry" rack ends for comparison! Whats a Z33? Almost every single car has a longer rack than the Z (including the Subaru Rack) but, big problem is f#ck all cars locate the rack in front of the Crossmember! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kash Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Are we reinventing the wheel here...what's wrong with the original sticky? I did the swap with the celica inner and subi outer and everything fits up great...hardest part to the swap was notching the crossmember to fit the subi rack and that only took about 20 minutes....had my local machine shop fab’ed up the connections to mate the subi low and high pressure piping to the 280zx piping from the power steering pump and that was it. Steering works great with much faster response and a breeze to drive and park...no longer feels beaten up after spirited runs and I have a lot of spirit:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Share Posted March 14, 2009 I think people are avoiding this conversion because, in theory, as it should create bumpsteer issues, But also, it seems most conversions require modifying the rack ends or modifying the rack in order to use the rack - are the Celica rack ends a bolt together? What year model Celica? got a part number? dont think the sticky specifies that, does it? Also, my mid 90's Subaru tie-rod ends are similar to the Z tie-rod end taper, but they are different for sure and I wouldn't use them!!! However, whatever combination you use to bolt together in order to get the correct overall length, you are still not addressing the issue of the inner pivot points on the rack being 15-20mm outbound of the LCA pivots - and its not that the rack is just further outbound, it is also higher as the Subaru rack is a bit fatter than the Z rack - that's if you stuff the Subaru Rack into the stock Z rack's mounting position, which everyone does! So ideally, you want the LCA pivots up and out! BUT, as you state mate, and as others have stated, you don't seem to have suffered any adverse effects from the aforementiond alignment issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Ok guys, I'm the one that initially put together the Celica inner rod ends with the Subaru outers. Keep in mind this was with a 1999 Forester rack which has 14x1.5 threads in the end, some of the later Subaru racks have 16x1.5 threads so make sure to check before you buy these rod ends. Here is the Moog part number for the 1984 Celica inner ends I used: EV167 I used stock Subaru Forester outer rod ends, the taper on them is identical to the stock Z outers. The Moog part # is: ES3712 As was stated in a prior post, it's almost impossible to get the Subaru rack as low on the crossmember as the original Datsun rack, so if you want perfect geometry you have to move the outer pivot points. If you move them up enough to match the rack location you might as well move them out as well. One caveat here, if you totally rebuild the crossmember it would be possible to mount the Subaru rack as low as the Datsun rack, but then you can also place the inner LCA pivots where ever you want. To answer the question about whether the PS pump will over drive the rack asked many posts back. I'm running mine with a stock LT1 pump and have no problems at all, the pump has a built in pressure regulator and the Subaru rack uses the same pressure as a GM rack. The Heidts valve is used when you combine a GM pump with a Ford rack. The Ford system uses a lower pressure (~800psi) so when you hook a GM pump (~1300psi) to it the rack is over-driven and becomes very twitchy (extremely fast reacting). My overall impression of the swap is very good, the steering is light and quick without being twitchy. I run 265/45-16s for auto-x, without the PS the steering was way to heavy, after a day of auto-x I was totally beat from wrestling the car around the course. Now I'm tired but not exhausted and the racing is more enjoyable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed260Z Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Why mess arround. This is your steering we are talking about. $225 for reman out of the box for my 82zxt. Wouldn't trust my life or others to say a few bucks.My 2 cents You have to be careful with quick parts searches. I you search for ACDELCO Part # 3612101, which is suppose to be the man rack for a 260-280Z you also get the same part # for your 82ZXT if you wanted to go manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 So is an S30 and an S130 rack the same length? If so, I think my idea of using a RHD rack upsidedown in a LHD car will solve all of these problems. Anyone else agree/disagree? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 ... No, the S80's require you to trim the ends a touch or they bottom out on the Subaru rack, but if you use the S70 rack ends they will bolt up perfectly to the Subaru rack - but they are longer and have a different thread on the tie-rod end side than the S80 - need (from memory) an 9-10cm tie-rod end to make that work! Alternative is to extend the thread in the Subaru rack, But to do this proprely, you shouldn't be just pulling out your tap and die set, should be getting in done on a lathe I would think, which means pulling the rack apart! this is what ezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz did and from memory he advised special tools were required! Sorry - I got side tracked with other bits and pieces and sorta left this one hanging! Without a proper conclusion!!! I will get some pics together of the S70 and "Camry" rack ends for comparison! Whats a Z33? Almost every single car has a longer rack than the Z (including the Subaru Rack) but, big problem is f#ck all cars locate the rack in front of the Crossmember! Z33 = 350z Yeah okay so no direct bolt on version yet. the S80 inners have the wrong thread patern? I thought someone said they'd fit the ZX arms, if the arms were shortened. These S70 inners you're talking about have the correct thread width for the ZX outters? I don't want to take apart a rack to put it on a lathe, though I can cut one with an andle grinder and thread it with a tap and die. so shortening is wouldn't be pretty, but I could do it. What year Subu rack should I be looking for? If say I was going to do a VQ conversion Could I move the cross member forward without a lot of issues? Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yeah okay so no direct bolt on version yet. Yes, if you use the Subaru Tie-Rod ends and Celica Rack Ends - BUT, I will have to get pics of my Tie-Rod Ends from my 1992 Legacy rack, they look very similar to Wheelmans Subaru Tie-Rod ends, but they don't have a suitable taper for the Z steering knuckles! BUT - the Rack looks very similar! the S80 inners have the wrong thread patern? I thought someone said they'd fit the ZX arms, if the arms were shortened. These S70 inners you're talking about have the correct thread width for the ZX outters? S80's and S70's have the correct thread for the Subaru Rack, but the S80's are a touch to long, so you need to either increase the thread into the Subaru rack or cut down the rack ends - the S70's are correct in thread length, but they are a bit long and have a corse thread - I will try and get photos! I don't want to take apart a rack to put it on a lathe, though I can cut one with an andle grinder and thread it with a tap and die. so shortening is wouldn't be pretty, but I could do it. What year Subu rack should I be looking for? From what I have seen pretty much any Subaru rack from the mid-late 90's and early 00's are the same, externally anyways! If say I was going to do a VQ conversion Could I move the cross member forward without a lot of issues? Not really, you will basically increase you caster by moving the crossmember forward - you will effectively be increasing the angle of the strut, as it connects to the lower control arm, which connects to your crossmember - be better of doing something like this below! very simple and it works! http://www.vq240z.com-a.googlepages.com/frontsubframe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze73 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Just a thought about the rack width and bumpsteer.... During cornering we are worried about bumpsteer due to the outer wheel/suspension as that is the one in compression correct? With the rack in front of the cross member/wheel axis the rack will pull on the front of the outer wheel, bringing the tie rod pivot and the LCA pivot more into alignment (at least on the horizontal plane) correct? Should we not be checking the LCA/tie rod pivot alignment at XX degrees of steering angle or some range of steering angles instead of just straight? Seemingly one would want the rack to be wider than the LCA pivots with the wheels straight. Please tell me if im completely high, but I just hadn't seen mention of this in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I was actually thinking of instead of modifying like Austin did on his 240Z (link above) to keep the rack in the same position, but move the crossmember to the front of the rack, flip it backward so the mounts are facing the engine, but the rack would basically be in the same location. Okay, so the Subi rack ~99' or 2000 S80 inners and trimmed ZX outters is pretty much what's needed for a bolt-on Power steering then right? no wait, you said the Subi rack would need to be trimmed too?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Okay, so the Subi rack ~99' or 2000 S80 inners and trimmed ZX outters is pretty much what's needed for a bolt-on Power steering then right? no wait, you said the Subi rack would need to be trimmed too?? Go and buy, Here is the Moog part number for the 1984 Celica inner ends I used: EV167I used stock Subaru Forester outer rod ends, the taper on them is identical to the stock Z outers. The Moog part # is: ES3712 Bolt it together ! At this point, this is a verified "bolt" together solution for using 90's early 00's Subaru Rack's! I was actually thinking of instead of modifying like Austin did on his 240Z (link above) to keep the rack in the same position, but move the crossmember to the front of the rack, flip it backward so the mounts are facing the engine, but the rack would basically be in the same location. Have a look under your Z, the front suspension hangs of your front crossmember, you can't move it anywhere without figuring out where those bits and pieces are going to attach to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260zShooter Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 From what I have seen pretty much any Subaru rack from the mid-late 90's and early 00's are the same, externally anyways! This is not a true statement. I found this from an earlier thread: I did some more research and finally took the rod ends off my rack to measure them and here's what I found. My rack is from a 1999 Forester. The rack housing length is 18.25" The rack length (part that moves back and forth) is 23.5" The inner tie rod thread size is M14-1.5 The input shaft has the rough splines (I count something like 20 splines even though we thought it was 18). It appears the following Subaru racks all use the smaller thread inner tie rod end. Might even be the exact same rack. 1998 - 2002 Forester 1993 Impreza 1998 - 2001 Impreza 1991 - 2004 Legacy 2001 - 2004 Outback I'm a little confused by this list as sweetride2go said his rack is from a 1995 Impreza and the thread dimensions I found for the inner tie rod he used are the same as those on my rack. Maybe the length was different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260zShooter Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Has anyone found a steering U-joint to fit the 2000 Forester with the 20 spined shaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 260zShooter, I bought the Subaru steering shaft when I picked up the rack. It consisted of 2 u-joints with a rag joint between them. I separated the u-joints from the rag joint and made an adapter which I welded to my stock Datsun steering shaft after shortening it ~6 inches, then I bolt the Subaru u-joint to the adapter. This is a PDF I put together documenting the process I went through installing the Subaru rack. Page 6 contains a pretty good picture of the setup. http://www.vikingds.com/zcarguy/Power%20Steering%20install.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260zShooter Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks wheelman, do you see any problem with me using the stock PS pump from the Skyline engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I don't know anything about the stock Skyline pump. The GM pump I'm using produces about 1300psi which works fine with the Subaru rack, if the Skyline pump produces more you may want to use the Heidts valve referenced earlier in the thread, if it produces less then the steering will be a little heavier but should work. I think the hardest thing you'll find with using the Skyline pump is plumbing it, but who knows it might all just bolt up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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