heavy85 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 So here is my dilemma. I drive my Z everywhere it goes and in fact do not even have something capable of towing it. I autocross about an hour to an hour and a half away. I occasionally dragrace two hours away. I track day between two and a half and three and a half hours away. I cram all gear into the car including 15x10 rim with full slicks and drive in an aluminum race seat. It works and have not left me stranded yet. However, I realize that eventually I may (will?) break something plus it sucks after a hot summer day in the sun to drive hour(s) in a hot loud uncomfortable car back home. So an opportunity has come my way and I'm weighing my options. A guy at work is selling an '89 Jeep Cherokee for $750 (4x4, auto, 'Limited' with all option, 4L, 2 door). It's got 180,000 miles but has been well maintained. Now I wasn't looking for a Jeep but this seems like it may be a good opportunity to get a 'work truck'. Replace the old beater minivan with this to haul slicks to the tire shop, etc plus then I could add a hitch and be able to tow on those hot miserable days or the longer trips and I wouldn't have to worry about breaking something. They are rated at 5000 lb for towing but reading some forums that looks to be pushing it pretty hard. I obviously dont own a trailer so was even thinking about a two wheel dolly to keep the weight down. So am I nuts? Yes, I've though of adding a trailer to the back of the Z (I lied I do have a small utility trailer leftover from kart days) but that does not address what I'm after. Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think you'll have more "reliability" issues with that Jeep then with your Z. A tow vehicle and trailer is very nice but it adds costs to your hobby. If you already have a work vehicle (minivan?) try towing the Z on a dolly with that and see how it goes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Not many takers on this one huh. John - our old minivan has a weak tranny and I wouldn't trust it towing anything. That's not just because it's old it's because the tranny was marginal when it was new. Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboboost Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'd reckon the Jeep would be fine for towing your Z. Just get a good trans-cooler kit, a temperature gauge and it will do what you want it to perfectly. Also make sure that the brakes are in tip-top condition every time you leave to go on a trip. Assuming your Z and your racing equipment weighs about 3400 lbs, you're still 1600 lbs below the tow rating, which is plenty of cushion. Those 4L Jeep motors are damn near bullet-proof, so I would not be too concerned about reliability. Just keep up with the maintenance, and I'd be willing to bet a 750 dollar Jeep goes a long way. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The Jeep will work fine. I agree with turbo you'll need a trans cooler, and make sure your trailer has brakes and that they work. A friend used to tow his Z to the track with a GMC Astro minivan. It wasn't a high speed affair, but he got it done just fine. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR8ED Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This may not be helpful to you, but it is an option that maybe others reading this thread could use. I used to tow my z using a tow bar attached the bumper mounting plates on the front end (my 78 280), and simply put the car in neutral with the steering unlocked. I towed it with my Saab 900, and with a lincoln towncar with zero issues. Sure I had to be careful, and my Saab was a 2litre n/a 5spd, but it worked just fine, and only a minor expense to fab a bar, hitch, etc. Ok it was not the greatest for backing up. I had to have a co-pilot in the z to steer it, but driving forward and turning corners,was like it was not even there. It worked great for the 1-2 times a year I needed it. Caution * may not be legal in your area * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Lincoln Town car or Crown Vic are both good tow cars for our small Zs. And right now those things are dirt cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I've flat-towed Z's cross country numerous times. You can get by with a much smaller vehicle when flat-towing than you need for a flatbed trailer or even a car dolly. Corvairs in the 70's were always being towed by other Covrairs to and from the races. i'm probably not the best guy to talk about 'opportunistic tow vehicle purchases' since I just picked up a 1990 Chevy Dually with air bags and 24 foot enclosed car transport using that reasoning. In my defense, though, I did transport home in one trip 4000# of Railroad Ties for landscaping my back yard, used it on another trip for 1 3/4 yards of gravel, brought home a 12X36 Engine Lathe, and a 20X24 Elevated Mezzanine (using a small trailer for the 12 foot beams that I didn't feel like piling 6 foot over the bed...) This is in addition to the tow bar that I use, and the Demco Tow Dolly I also have, and use with the wife's Frontier.Problem is that it IS the wife's, and it's BOK BOK BOK if I scratch it doing one of my 'errands'. Flat-Towing is even easier than a tow dolly. You just need four good wheels on the ground to make it work, as opposed to two with the dolly. The Tow Bars are available from Harbor Freight now for under $60, and even the Valley Towbar I bought in 1995 to tow my 240 to the national convention in Denver is still below $150 retail. That thing has been across the country towing Z's and ZX's several times, including a jack-knifing rollover in Oklahoma when the truck pulled the Z onto it's side with the towbar after htting black ice on I40 at mile marker 88. There is an argument for having a heavy tow vehicle in some instances. But the towbar made it through with flying colors and has gone on to tow even more cars since the incident unaffected. For the price it's the cheapest way to move the car if you have four good wheels! During the Denver Convention I have witnesses that my 1990 Chevy G30 Van towed my 73 240 Z at 'go to jail speeds' through the mountains and on flat ground---faggedaboutdit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 ... but flat towing doesn't help if I break something ... and then I still have to change all tires .... and front end alignment ... I just need to make a decision already. Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 You see, that was the argument for the Tow Dolly. Then the justification for the Enclosed Trailer and Dually... You can use 'if it breaks hard' up to your first flatbed. After that it gets increasingly hard to justify an enclosed trailer. But get the enclosed trailer first and then you can start saying 'I can't load scrap metal in the back of the trailer! How will they get to it with the magnet at the yard?' And thence the flatbed is justified. You gotta make long term plans man! Don't make a mistake and buy something that screws you out of something else later on! Muahahahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 I need to work on my devious nature as it's obviously lacking a bit. I'm curious what your compound looks like????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 That microsoft birds eye view was pretty neat, clearer view than Google Earth... Scary too. I thought my stuff was 'hidden' under tree cover, but only from one direction---I didn't realize they could make panoramic views from those Sat-Photos. I need to work on the camo some more. Draping netting from the trees should do it towards the back of the property, the majority of the early cars are in shade when the photos are snapped, but you can still count them. The ones lined up in rows near the house are just too easily counted. Time to make some cover and 'hide stuff from prying eyes'! I'll come back and post a link to a Google Earth Shot if I can get it to work---freakin' internet in Morocco is NOT cooperating with me this evening! DAMMNIT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Looks like I'm buying the Jeep ..... but for my sister in-law which she will then pay for with tax return. Oh well at least I dont have to dump more time and $ into the POS Daewoo she has now. That thing is the biggest piece I've ever come across. I hope she can get a couple hundred for it but I doubt it. Still waiting for the compound pics TonyD!!! Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volvo-Daycab-Truck-Auto-Car-Transporter-Hauler_W0QQitemZ300290037245QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCommercial_Trucks?hash=item300290037245&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1308 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 WHoaaaa... Hold on there with the big rig towing. It will cost $20,000 for a minor service job on that truck regardless of it's initial cost. I would never admit to owning anything made by Chrysisler. The Jeep is going to be the most unreliable thing you have ever owned. I have been through a few towing vehicles. Ford ranger pickup truck(too weak in every respect) Toyota FJ-80 landcruiser(too short, lacks stability) Chevy C20 gasser 3/4 ton(1984 junker with grabby drum brakes and no AC) Chevy Z71 1/2 ton 4x4(decent tow vehicle, but the brakes are too weak) Currently a Ford E-250 Econoline Van(damn nice tow vehicle in every regard) The only towing vehicle I have been happy with is the E250 Van. It has a lot of weight, Big 4 wheel disk brakes, Decent power, and PLENTY of room for the race junk. I can even take a nap in it comfortably regardless of weather outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Bringing one up from the dead. So a year later and I'm still debating on buying a tow rig. I've been looking around and late '90s trucks / vans are cheap - $3-4k can buy a lot. It will be to tow my Z on a most likely open steel trailer. Requirements are reliable - I dont want to spend time working on the damn thing, seats 5 for when I take the kids, has working A/C, and gets as good of gas mileage as possible. I've been thinking either 1) conversion van - super cheap, usually low miles, can comfortably camp at the track in the fold down rear seat (currently tent it at the track) 2) Suburban - comfortably seats kids if needed, hauls lots, it's a truck more or less so should tow, possibly fold down rear seats and camp inside on rainy nights?? 3) extended / super cab pick-up - less useful but can tow. The gas mileage is killing me. Closest tracks are 150-200 miles one way and I currently drive the Z with 20 something MPG. Most of the options above get ~11 MPG in town, maybe 16 on highway and I'm assuming single digits towing. That leaves a diesel but they are much more expensive. Although there are several mid 80's military trucks / blazers with diesels for sale in the $1-3k range with very low <100k miles. I doubt they have A/C though. Government must have just spent all our excess $ on new trucks .... I'll end for now by saying I've never even owned a truck. It's always been minivan or compact cars so this is all new to me. When I raced go-karts I towed a small trailer with my Rabbit then my Focus if that counts . Any additional experiences to share? Thanks Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Not sure what you have slated budget-wise, but you can get an OBS (old body style) 7.3L Powerstroke CHEAP by diesel standards, on average about 3k for a 4x2 with 200k miles. They're not without their nuances but the engine block itself will last forever and they'll get up to 19mpg in stock trim unloaded, a reprogrammed ECU will yield 21 or more with other mods. You can tow just about anything with it. The ZF-5speed and differential are better than what Dodge offers with the Cummins. The 7.3 is much better than the newer 6.0 from a longevity standpoint, and no emissions crap to worry about. I've owned my '94.5 (1st year production) for 7 years, it's never left me stranded. I bought it on Ebay from Texas, flew down and drove it home. Sometimes think of upgrading but am unwilling to sell for the going prices. It pulls my 20' enclosed well. The trailer tows like a dream, torsion axles are the way to go. The only thing I have to look out for are semis, the drafts have a tendency to throw me around a bit not an issue with an open trailer. The only drawback if you're daily driving it would be winter, plugging it in at night is pretty much a necessity if you're keeping it outdoors. Glow plug relays notoriously fail but the glow plugs themselves last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4xwellmurd3r Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 well, my dad's 1993 Chevy Blazer Tahoe got 20 city and 25 highway (verified by me driving it) and ran till it had WELL over 350K miles on it (i think the oil pump failed on it) it needed a transmission rebuilt at 320K miles when the overdrive went out, but besides that, it only had general mantinance. My dad used to use it to toe constantly too. (it was either that, or the 66 impala with 400k on it, it did fine but the bumper stuck out too far so turning was odd) so why not get a 1990's chevy? it had a vortec V6 in it btw. Pulled perfectly fine cross country too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 It's not going to be a daily driver, just to tow the Z. Never thought of V6. How would that pull? I'm in the midwest so dont have mountains to deal with but would like to be able to maintain reasonable highway speed. Budget is a couple grand. I've been looking at 90's diesels like preith suggested but there are not any around here without being dually which I would rather not have. From past experience anything much over 120k mile starts to have maintenance so 200k definitely scares me. I'll only use maybe 4k miles a year so I wont add many miles and dont want to have to nickle and dime my time away keeping it going. My goals are not too lofty huh .... Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Look for a Service Bodied Work Truck. My acquaintenace here bought a 2002 City of Los Angeles DWP 3500 Chevy for $1000 from an auction reseller. Guy bought it at auction for $300. Has put thousands of miles on it. Not the pretty truck, not a lot of comfort options, but it's got a SERVICE BED on it that you can literally load every tool you own into it and STILL tow your car on a trailer! He gets 15 unladen, but he also resembles Fred Sanford in both physical appearance and driving habits... I'd opt for a 99 or similar vintage F350 service body truck. I worked out of one for a while (3 years, 100K miles) and it towed fully laden fine. With the new programmers out there, you really want OBD2 on the car, and not the old TBI OBD 1 Systems like I have in my 90 Dually. Then again, I got my Dually for $1500. What astounds me is I put 5000 miles on it this past year, and officially I've only been in the office 21 days this year! When I'm home, the dually is working more than I ever thought! I thought I'd use MAYBE 2500 miles. I think if you get a DECENT truck, you will use it FAR morethan you expect. You don't think of it now, because you don't have one. When you have one, the ease of using it to make work easier, moving crap (YOUR OWN CRAP, not other peoples! Make that CLEAR to your 'friends'!) the list is really endless. For me, the Dually gets maybe 10 driving the way I do... And my old "1 ton" single wheel would get 15-17 (diesel)... But I can take in ONE load what would take me 2 trips in the stnadard bed single tire version. (4000# of Railroad Ties, for instance, or a 17X36 Cincinnatti Milacron Engine Lathe...) Don't need it often, but when you do, there is no substitute! Get over the mileage issues. I had that F350 at 100K in 2002 when I left it, that truck is STILL in service now, 10 years later, and racking up the same kind of mileage I did. I figure it's got 300K+ on it by now! For occasional work, your mileage fears are WAY unfounded! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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