softopz Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Id really like to know whats going on I just finished wiring and installing edis in my l28et with ms2 and 2.88 code. I get a good rpm signal the injectors are clicking off, spark is nice and hot. I got good fuel pressure at 30 psi. I recently torn down the motor bored .5mm over, new pistons, rings, bearings, arp hard ware. Id like to know why I have to be stuck trying to figure this car out for the past 4 yrs!!! My guess is timing But the timing light I have doesnt flash with edis or cause of the magnecor wires. I set the the missing tooth 6 teeth before vr sensor with the motor on #1 tdc. My settings for ignition. I took all from the edis page in the megamanual. As per my wiring I got new circuit for the coil and ign module they both get 12v +. Any help would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Have you tried spraying some starting fluid in the intake to get the engine running first?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeatrpi Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Silly Q first - Any chance you're 180 degrees out (Are you sure it was TDC on the compression stroke)? To get mine to idle, I had to find the right trigger angle. Luckily I copied someone else's settings from hybridz to start with, then confirmed with a timing light, then fiddled with it to get it more precise. To get the motor to even kick over, you just need to be in the ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 Dexter - No I havent tried sparying starter fluid and I dont think I will. Mikeatrpi - Iam running EDIS wasted spark so terminal A sends spark to both 1 and 6 even if I was 180 off it would still be perfect. Update I am now getting a sputter but wont catch enough to idle so I guess Iam looking at messing around with Afterstart Enrichments. Before I go move on any longer I would like be sure of my ignition timing. My timing light however is not catching anything> Its either the magnecors , the light or I would need to atleast Idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 As a side note, I tried using starting fluid on an LT1 and it would not fire even once. The I sprayed some gas into the intake and boom, fired right off. I don't think the starting fluid works very well on gas engines from my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I suggested using the starting fluid to see if it would run, since it is supposed to be easier to run off the starting fluid then gas. Was thinking if his fuel settings aren't close it will be hard to start. Plus less chance of fouling plugs using fluid. Never heard of gas being easier to fire than starting fluid before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 I didnt intent this to be starter fluid vs gas starter method of choice. Its a fresh rebuilt engine and I did not want to use anything but a proper way of starting a car. It should start on its own, compression is good, fuel pressure good, and so on. However Id really like to see whats going on in the timing department but the light is not picking up a signal?! So I can stop thinking of timing and work on cranking / ASE enrichments. On a side note when I had the distributor on the car I also did the on board coil ignitor I remember reading the megamanual and removing c12 and c30 would this affect it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 anyone please im desperate for help!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 After you crank it over a bit and remove a spark plug is it wet or dry? You really need to see with the timing light that your timing is good. I have a couple different lights and one of them has always worked on wasted spark setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 The plugs are wet. Moby are you suggesting I try a different timing light? the thing with EDIS is you can get very close to static timing; by setting the wheel while the engine is on tdc and place the wheel six after missing tooth. I dont imagine it being that off. I dont have another timing light at the moment. I find they work well when the engine is already idling or reving. Iam going to upload my msq if anyone can take a look at it maybe I have something completely wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 How did you set the required fuel number, did you use the calculator in megatune? I would check timing with a light, every time I think my setup should work I later find out I had a wire swapped and the wrong set of coils is firing, or some other dumb mistake like that. If the plugs are wet then did you try full throttle while cranking to see if flood clear mode causes it to try to fire up? The new engine has good compression right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 The required fuel number there is a calculator I used in megatune and I put the inector sizeand got 12 I believe stock zxt injectors. No I havent tried full throttle. What exactly does that setting do? I have my injectors wired up to 2 wires on db 37 splitting into injector loom 3 injector per bank. How should I leave my settings in megatune? ya good compression all across I have drained the oil since starting edis with the dizzy i got to run but I had to keep on the throttle. It ran really rich and the oil was really thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Assuming your timing is correct, compression is good and all megasquirt wiring and settings are correct then you only have two things you should mess with to get the engine to fire: Required fuel setting and idle screw. I always turn the idle screw so that the butterfly in the throttle body is opened pretty much all that the adjustment will allow for the first firing of a new megasquirt install, that way the engine gets plenty of air. Yeah, idle will be real fast, but then it can be adjusted down once the engine is running. Then changed required fuel up or down depending on wet or dry spark plugs. A common problem is too much fuel on a new install and the spark plugs getted fouled, then it is hard to start even with the correct settings. If you suspect this try a new set of plugs. If you think you flooded the engine, then you can push the throttle all the way down while cranking. This automatically puts megasquirt into flood clear mode so it does not inject any more fuel allowing you to start a flooded engine (just like all modern EFI systems). From my experience, every engine I have ever started fired right off with the required fuel calulated in megatune. I have never had to change the value just to get the engine to start. I have needed to open the butterfly to start several of engines because they had a cold air idle motor that ended up being removed by me during the install so they all suffered from not getting enough air through the throttle body and would not idle correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 I will get a fresh batterey, open the throttle screw all the way. Put the motor in the sun maybe it will evaporate some of the gas, the ndry the plugs and play with fuel settings a bit. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks Moby In megatune there is a floodclear mode option. Im on the desktop now but I think it says 70 % Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 What is the RPM signal looking like? REmember Ms does not need to "talk" to the EDIS module, and as long as the wheel is setup correctly, you should get 10 deg btdc. You just need pin 24 on the DB37 to be connected to the edis module for a rpm signal. I would disconnect pin 36 and try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rolling Parts Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 1) Get the timing light fixed, EDIS is just a regular coil so it has to flash. 2) The coil pack fires 1-3-2 so make sure that 1&6 are on coil 1, 2&5 are on the opposite end coil, and 3&4 are on the center coil. 3) If all else fails, UNPLUG the SAW signal from Megasuirt and see if she'll start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Yah im getting an rpm signal 150 -180 showing in megatune. My coil pack and plug wires are wired exactly like that. What unplugging the SAW going to do? put in limp mode 10 degrees btdc right. So are you guys proposing I unplug the SAW and put the light on it aha I see. Then see where 10 degrees should look like on the wheel. If Im wrong please correct me. I'll try that for sure any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rolling Parts Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I was just suggesting this as a test for the ignition system. Cutting the MS out of the loop (no connection to pin 36) will tell you if the ignition is working at the basic level of 10BTDC. If the ignition is working OK, reconnect the SAW and see if it's STILL correct at idle. Sorry, only thing I can think of to isolate and diagnose a newly installed ignition system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 The ignition is working , I got a tach signal and I have spark. Its a matter of "tuning" cranking pulses and ASE I believe. Or my injector wiring may be incorrect that its banking too much?! or not enough like I said previously I had wired my injectors 3(inj) per 1 bank off db 37 and same for the other. If i do it like that how much squirts per stroke? I wish someone was close to toronto or montreal with MS experience to help me. Willing to pay cause I have done everything in my power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvannly Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hi there im new here, but Ive done a lot of MS installs. I read most of the posts here but skipped a few so... On the constants window id just run 2 squirts simultaneously for now. what you want to do first is mess with your "req fuel number" Since you say your plugs are wet id lower that number by a little then than half of what it is now. Id get new plugs too. I usually run cheap ones for the first start ups. Do you get a constant, constant as in always showing a rpm signal and not a on and off rpm signal in megatune during cranking? Do you have a wideband? Do the disconnecting of the saw wire method as well, this will tell you if your Vr sensor is close enough to the correct tooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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