Heavyweight Bout: RB26dett VS. LS1

[zangiefisgod]

Hi Zangiefisgod,

 

Since you are considering these two swaps, how about telling us how you plan to use the car. This information will be helpful in determining which would be better for your intended purpose. Also, you seem to ahve a figure of 500rwhp in your mind for this project. Why did you choose this figure? I guess this again comes down to what the car will be used for.

 

Do you want a 10 second 1/4 mile car?

 

A weekend cruiser?

 

An autocross car?

 

A track day car?

 

A combination of them all?

 

The reason I bring this up is that you seem to be planning on doing this swap on a $5000 budget and it may be possible that you will be very happy with a 350RWHP car which can be achieved with a stock LS1. Many people get hung up on Building a Killer Motor when all they really want to do is own a cool car with an engine swap. many people also dream of 500RWHP and have never even driven a 500RWHP car.

 

As the owner of an LS1 powered Z car, I know that in the beginning planning stages of my swap, I considered building killer engine and found that a stock LS1 is plenty of go for my intended uses. Weekend cruiser, track days, auto crosses and a run down the 1/4 mile once in a while.

 

As for which engine, the LS1 will be an easier swap for $5K and my LS1 gets 31MPG on the hwy at 80mph (1900rpms) in 6th gear. It also runs the 1/4 mile in the 12s and is very reliable. Parts are easy to get if you need them. The low end torque is so nice and makes for a better street car because all the power is right there without having to rev the piss out of it.

 

By the way, I am in Maryland too. If you want to see how a stock LS1 runs in a Z car, come on down I will take you for a spin. Most people get out of my car and say, "WOW!"

 

qwik240z,

 

Thanks for the invite to check out your Z, I'll shoot you a PM to get more details. My goal for this project is to ultimately build a fast street car. I want to start with a platform that will get me to 500 whp without building the engine, but still has potential to run much faster. I came up 500 whp as a figure that would allow me to run in the C6 ZO6 ballpark, to start. The only reason that I am not considering just swapping a VG30dett is because of the pains of working in/around the engine bay and sheer weight of the motor. Also, since I plan to reduce the weight of the chassis to around 3,000 lbs, the aluminum LS1 seems like a favorable alternative. I've also been researching LT1's as another option, simply due to the significantly reduced entry price and equal aftermarket following. My gut feeling is that the SBC is the better choice; whether the LS1 or LT1. The Z32 is a porker and stepping down in displacement probably isn't the smartest move I'm thinking...

[Jehannum]

Wow, you're gonna cut 800 pounds from the car? Where were you planning on finding that, exactly?

[Slammed68]

Some people need to slow down and think about ♥♥♥♥, seriously.

 

LQ4 6.0 Iron block LS motor weighs approx ~80 lbs more than an LS1, can be had for around 800 bucks for a LONGBLOCK... and have the displacement advantage.

 

Get an LQ4 - good cam and head package, rod bolts, and you will be SET for THOUSANDS cheaper than an LS1 or RB26 setup.

 

 

 

My LQ4 swapped heads and cam car is my DAILY DRIVER, and starts and runs SMOOTH EVERY DAY. - unless your JDUM at heart and just have to have that straight 6.

[getoffmyinternet]

the only reason to swap to an RB26 is so you can work on your engine easier.

the VG will make just as much hp and tons more torque.

 

 

Perhaps, but with the rb you get bragging rights

[Slammed68]

I have an LS and I get more compliments than anything. Its not like if you dont have an RB your car is going to be a pile of JUNK!

[Meph]

Also look into a toyota based swap, as i know you can get a 1jz for around 1K. 280hp stock, can handle 500 hp in stock form. Just another idea

[zangiefisgod]

Some people need to slow down and think about ♥♥♥♥, seriously.

 

LQ4 6.0 Iron block LS motor weighs approx ~80 lbs more than an LS1, can be had for around 800 bucks for a LONGBLOCK... and have the displacement advantage.

 

Get an LQ4 - good cam and head package, rod bolts, and you will be SET for THOUSANDS cheaper than an LS1 or RB26 setup.

 

 

 

My LQ4 swapped heads and cam car is my DAILY DRIVER, and starts and runs SMOOTH EVERY DAY. - unless your JDUM at heart and just have to have that straight 6.

 

Hey Slammed68,

 

I was looking at the LQ4 blocks - what kind of heads are you running? Any power numbers?

PS: Good article on the engine specs - very detailed!

http://www.quicksilvertrucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233

[zangiefisgod]

Wow, you're gonna cut 800 pounds from the car? Where were you planning on finding that, exactly?

 

I have a 1990 non-turbo coupe with a manual trans. I believe this is the lightest chassis for the Z32. Without twin turbos, intercoolers, HICAS, leather, airbags, iron brake calipers, thicker rotors, etc - the curb weight is only in the 3,300 ballpark. I hope to reach 3,000 lbs by removing the HVAC and all related accessories, much of the interior, exhaust, stereo, cruise control, wiper & antenna assemblies, spare tire/jack, and going with lighter seats & suspension. Also considering the LS1 is roughly 100 lbs lighter than the VG30DE, I expect to see a 200 lb loss with the aforementioned items. Here's a great link showing where & how to shed extra L-B's: http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300zx/forums/technical/view/1065404/Weight-Reductions-101---Part-1-The-Basics.html

[Jehannum]

I have a 1990 non-turbo coupe with a manual trans. I believe this is the lightest chassis for the Z32. Without twin turbos, intercoolers, HICAS, leather, airbags, iron brake calipers, thicker rotors, etc - the curb weight is only in the 3,300 ballpark. I hope to reach 3,000 lbs by removing the HVAC and all related accessories, much of the interior, exhaust, stereo, cruise control, wiper & antenna assemblies, spare tire/jack, and going with lighter seats & suspension. Also considering the LS1 is roughly 100 lbs lighter than the VG30DE, I expect to see a 200 lb loss with the aforementioned items. Here's a great link showing where & how to shed extra L-B's: http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300zx/forums/technical/view/1065404/Weight-Reductions-101---Part-1-The-Basics.html

 

I think you might be better off with a different starting platform.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are many lighter, stiffer chassis out there that'll take an LS1 with less effort than a Z32. And that's just within the Nissan family of cars.

 

You're free to rock on with your bad self, of course.

[dts300z]

Wow, you're gonna cut 800 pounds from the car? Where were you planning on finding that, exactly?

 

Before you post you should consider your source of information.

 

I have a 1991 NA slicktop, the lightest of the Z32 cars from the factory. I have done a V8 swap in my car, an LT1 to be exact and I had it on corner scales back in 2003 and it came in at just over 2850 lbs with a 1/4 tank of gas, crap piled in the trunk and all the factory crap under the dash. So minimal weight reduction and this was with the 4l60e transmission.

 

Since then I've also swapped a SR20DET into the same car a few years later and corner scaled it in a completely different set of scales and it came in at 2750 lbs with a 1/2 tank of gas and again fully loaded.

 

Now I have put the LT1 back in with lots of weight reduction but it does have a turbo kit on it but I would venture to guess it will probably weigh in at 2700-2800 lbs without driver. <----- please quote me on that too!

 

When I get it over to the shop I'll throw it back on the scales and take pictures so everyone can put this to rest. Yes, some won't be as light but I promise you the only Z32 out there that weighs more or even close to 3800 lbs has alot of cargo meaning probably the 2+2 with 4 grown men in it.

 

End Rant.

Edited September 21, 2009 by dts300z
spell check

[dts300z]

I think you might be better off with a different starting platform.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are many lighter, stiffer chassis out there that'll take an LS1 with less effort than a Z32. And that's just within the Nissan family of cars.

 

You're free to rock on with your bad self, of course.

 

^^^^ This is the post that started my rant. ^^^^

 

How on earth would you know what is better for someone else you don't even know. The swap has been done therefore it can be done.

 

You do realize you just posted that on HybridZ.

 

Maybe I'm overreacting and if so I apologize for my conduct.

[Jehannum]

Before you post you should consider your source of information.

 

I have a 1991 NA slicktop, the lightest of the Z32 cars from the factory. I have done a V8 swap in my car, an LT1 to be exact and I had it on corner scales back in 2003 and it came in at just over 2850 lbs with a 1/4 tank of gas, crap piled in the trunk and all the factory crap under the dash. So minimal weight reduction and this was with the 4l60e transmission.

 

Since then I've also swapped a SR20DET into the same car a few years later and corner scaled it in a completely different set of scales and it came in at 2750 lbs with a 1/2 tank of gas and again fully loaded.

 

Now I have put the LT1 back in with lots of weight reduction but it does have a turbo kit on it but I would venture to guess it will probably weigh in at 2700-2800 lbs without driver. <----- please quote me on that too!

 

When I get it over to the shop I'll throw it back on the scales and take pictures so everyone can put this to rest. Yes, some won't be as light but I promise you the only Z32 out there that weighs more or even close to 3800 lbs has alot of cargo meaning probably the 2+2 with 4 grown men in it.

 

End Rant.

My mostly-stock '92 turbo coupe with about 3/4 tank of gas tipped the scales at 3600 (truck stop scale).

 

Also, I'd like to see the 2+2 that can hold 4 grown men

 

^^^^ This is the post that started my rant. ^^^^

 

How on earth would you know what is better for someone else you don't even know. The swap has been done therefore it can be done.

 

You do realize you just posted that on HybridZ.

 

Maybe I'm overreacting and if so I apologize for my conduct.

 

I think you might be overreacting a bit. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

 

While doing something just to say you've done it is obviously a perfectly valid motivation (and I'm hard-pressed to care what happens to a ragged-out '90 NA) I also know that once you add "Z32" to the equation, things get complicated and expensive in a hurry.

[Slammed68]

Hey Slammed68,

 

I was looking at the LQ4 blocks - what kind of heads are you running? Any power numbers?

PS: Good article on the engine specs - very detailed!

http://www.quicksilvertrucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233

 

 

I JUST swapped heads on it, went to 5.3 truck heads with 2" intake valves, which bumps the comp to 11:1 instead of 9.2?:1

 

Bought the heads with machinework for 260 bucks.....

 

When I was small cam only (TSP 228R) and sanderson headers, I was hanging right beside ~124 trap cars...

 

 

Here is me runnin a 10.8 @ 126 trap GTO when I was cam only.

[zangiefisgod]

I think you might be better off with a different starting platform.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are many lighter, stiffer chassis out there that'll take an LS1 with less effort than a Z32. And that's just within the Nissan family of cars.

 

You're free to rock on with your bad self, of course.

 

You're definitely right; there are many other platforms that accept the SBC much more easily than the Z32. However, personally, the reason I chose this platform is because the car has been in my family for 20 years and I purchased it for next to nothing. Secondly, I think the Z32 has one of the best body lines ever made and it's cool to see guys like Dan (dts300z) create successful swaps in this virtually unprecedented chassis.

[zangiefisgod]

I JUST swapped heads on it, went to 5.3 truck heads with 2" intake valves, which bumps the comp to 11:1 instead of 9.2?:1

 

Bought the heads with machinework for 260 bucks.....

 

When I was small cam only (TSP 228R) and sanderson headers, I was hanging right beside ~124 trap cars...

 

 

Here is me runnin a 10.8 @ 126 trap GTO when I was cam only.

 

Nice man, t56 I take it? What kind of clutch/flywheel setup are you running with the power you're making?

[Slammed68]

Ram lvl 3 clutch with a "F1 racing" lighweight flywheel. Stock would be fine though.

[MoNkEyT88]

I have a LS7 clutch/flywheel. Should hold +500hp.

 

I upgraded to the Fidanza 13lb flywheel. The LS7 clutch/flywheel is larger, and will hold more power than a LS1 clutch/flywheel.

 

LQ9 6.0L

Texas speed MS3 cam

Texas speed CNC port/polish LS6 heads.

LS6 intake manifold.

Dynoed 420whp. ~480hp.

[dts300z]

My mostly-stock '92 turbo coupe with about 3/4 tank of gas tipped the scales at 3600 (truck stop scale).

 

Also, I'd like to see the 2+2 that can hold 4 grown men

 

I assume that was with you in it. If not I am very surprised. If you still have the car I would be interested what it weighs on a set of corner scales.

 

 

 

I think you might be overreacting a bit. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

 

While doing something just to say you've done it is obviously a perfectly valid motivation (and I'm hard-pressed to care what happens to a ragged-out '90 NA) I also know that once you add "Z32" to the equation, things get complicated and expensive in a hurry.

 

Yea I probably was but I just think that when you tell someone that they should probably start with a different platform because you might think it is a tough swap doesn't mean it will be for them.

 

Although I'm comparing this to my experience with the car. It took me 2 weeks to modify the transmission tunnel and firewall and that was in my spare time after work and over the weekend. This was also my first time working with sheet metal. Once I got everything I needed I had the car up and running a few weeks after that and again this was in my spare time also.

 

The only thing expensive about the "Z32" is the engine that came in it. Everything else about that car is relatively cheap. Thats why a swap is a great solution. Trust me that swap makes that car sing and anyone that says otherwise is being silly. That car is no more complicated than any other car out there. They have a reputation for being complicated but that was only because the engine bay is so cramped and even then when you start moving things out of the way they are pretty simple.

 

You are right about the swap being a little more difficult and other chassis having more room but it is one of the most gratifying feelings to have successfully completed a V8 swap in a Z32.

[dts300z]

I JUST swapped heads on it, went to 5.3 truck heads with 2" intake valves, which bumps the comp to 11:1 instead of 9.2?:1

 

Bought the heads with machinework for 260 bucks.....

 

When I was small cam only (TSP 228R) and sanderson headers, I was hanging right beside ~124 trap cars...

 

 

Here is me runnin a 10.8 @ 126 trap GTO when I was cam only.

 

That thing scoots!

[Jehannum]

I assume that was with you in it. If not I am very surprised. If you still have the car I would be interested what it weighs on a set of corner scales.

 

Right now, it weighs about 18 pounds, because there's no engine in it.

 

That, hopefully, will be rectified this weekend. I'll see what I can do for weighing it thereafter (and no, I wasn't in the car at the truck stop scale).