4 to 5 lug swap options

[Kevin.pk]

I have gotten enough random PMs over the past year or two asking how to do the 5 lug swap that I was inspired to make a thread that I can simply point towards.

 

There are a few different options to do a S30 5 lug swap from mild to wild.

Front

 

Note: When replacing any of these components, this may be a good time to replace other items such as bearing, seals, etc.

 

Option 1: Z31 Hubs w/3/4" offset

This is the route I chose to take. It is not anything new or innovative but it does the trick.

Source:Modern-motorsports

Shown: aluminum Z31 hub (available from MM)

and Toyota s12w caliper

 

Parts list:

5 lug z31 300zx Front hubs

5 lug z31 300zx rotors

Front Calipers from Toyota 89-95 4WD Pickups (S12W) or 1986-88 Toyota 4X4 4 cylinder pickup with vented rotor(S12+8)

35mm Rotor spacer (available from modern-motorsports.com)

 

Notes:

1. This option will result in the offset of the wheel being pushed out 3/4" on either side.

2. Most of the items in this list can be purchased through modern-motorsports. I chose to piece it together myself and simply buy the spacers from him to save on shipping costs.

3. The stock dust shield may not fit with this brake package. I chose to simply remove mine rather than attempt to make them work. They may need to somply be trimmed to fit but i didn't even bother.

4. I have read about people using both the z31 and stock s30 inner wheel bearing seal. I don't recall which one I personally used.

5. The two different calipers listed both work. The S12W have 4 pistons all the same sized while the S12+8 pistons are staggered. I believe it is recommended to get the larger 280zx master cylinder when using the S12w calipers. http://forums.hybridz.org/showpost.php?p=574854&postcount=6

 

Option 2: Aluminum 5 lug Hub w/ Stock Offset

Modern-motorsports makes an aluminum hub that is in the same offset as the stock hub but made of aluminum and has 5 lug instead of 4.

 

This hub is not a direct remove and replacement unless you make a compatible change with your brake system at the same time. The typical 4bolt flange rotors that 4 lug Z cars have can't be bolted onto the 5 bolt rear tapped flange of this hub. We have two brake options to go with this hub.[/size']

 

Option 3: Aluminum 5 lug "Cobra" Hubs

This option allows the use of brakes from a late model mustang to be bolted on, with some associated components also available from modern-motorsports.com.

More info can be obtained at modern-motorsports website.

 

Option 4: Arizona Z car

http://www.arizonazcar.com/brake.html

COMPETITION 5-LUG Racing Brake Kit for 1970-1978 Z

$2200 for the complete kit for all 4 wheels.

CLICK HERE FOR THE 5-LUG Z FRONT INSTALL

SHOWN INSTALLED WITH OPTIONAL SUSPENSION COMPONENTS

 

Rear

 

Note: The stub axle can be a particularly big pain in the ass and taking them to a shop with a press is advisable for removal and installation if you are not equipped with the correct tools. I also highly advise you to go ahead and change the bearings at this time so as not to have to do it later after reassembly.

Option 1a:

Stock Stub axle drilled for 5 lug using one of the stock holes and 4 new holes drilled.

I had this procedure done by a local machine shop.

 

Option 1b:

Modern-motorsports.com Can provide this service for you as well and install ARP wheel studs in place of your stock studs. Note: The ARP studs are a different size.

Picture from modern-motorsports.com

I am still running Drum brakes in the rear so my solution was to drill the new bolt pattern into the drums and simple put them back on. I believe the other option involves 240sx and/or 280zx components to install disk brakes. I do know that Modern-motorsports.com does has components to make the disk swap easier if you choose that route. I haven't done this procedure so I won't comment any further as to the components needed.

 

Option 2: Arizona Z car

 

http://www.arizonazcar.com/brake.html

REAR KIT (BELOW) SHOWN INSTALLED WITH OPTIONAL SUSPENSION COMPONENTS

Option 3: MM Billet 4340 stub axle

Modern motorsports offers a replacement stub axle that is stronger than your traditional axle as well as provides the change over to 5 lug.

http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32_53&products_id=62

 

 

 

If there are any other options that I missed, feel free to add to the list. Hopefully I didn't botch this up too badly.

 

I may do a step by step at some point for the z31 4x4 brake option when I get some spare time to tear down and take some pics.

[fastzcars]

Notes:

1. This option will result in the offset of the wheel being pushed out 3/4" on either side.

 

On this one note, I did just did the conversion with the 300zx front hubs and it indeed offset the disc 3/4" inch but not the wheel. The wheel offset I needed was a 28 mm on a 17x9 wheel ! just making a note of it! So in the end I have 2 different offsets in front and back. the rears are 17mm and the fronts are 38 with a 10mm spacer! all wheels are 17x9's

[smoorhs02]

Got my vote for Sticky!!!

[Kevin.pk]

Alright I did some quick measurements to verify the different offset.(For whatever reason I still have the stock 4 lug setup lying around).

 

These measurement were taken from the back side of where the caliper bolts to, and to the front of the hub. This was the easiest measurement to gather with my equipment.

 

Unfortunately the batteries in my digital caliper were dead so here are the results.

Z31 hub

 

 

 

S30 hub

Note: I did not install the inner bearing as I didn't feel like pulling the seal out of the z31 hub to get the inner bearing. This measurement was taken with the hub almost flush(~1mm) against where the dust shield would bolt.

 

 

 

These two measurements come out to ~4.2"(z31 hub) and ~3.4"(S30 hub). Take in to account that my s30 measurement may not be exact and you get roughly ~.75"

 

So the Z31 Hub does in fact push the outer most part of the hub outward ~3/4"

[Kevin.pk]

I also took some other miscellaneous pics while I had everything apart. I'm not much of a photographer.....

 

Rotor spacer for 5 lug Z31 Disk rotor.

 

 

Rotor bolted to hub with spacer with what appears to be the stock 300zx seal.

 

 

Entire assembly bolted to the car

 

 

Stainless braided Brake line I also ordered from MM when I ordered the spacer. (not a necessity but a nice "while I'm at it" upgrade)

 

 

S12+8 Wide caliper

 

[440man]

Hey Kevin, Did you use any kind of spacer on your redrilled rears to even it up with the 3/4" difference in front? This is a great writeup, definitely a sticky candidate!

 

Thanks

 

Bryan

[Kevin.pk]

Hey Kevin, Did you use any kind of spacer on your redrilled rears to even it up with the 3/4" difference in front? This is a great writeup, definitely a sticky candidate!

 

Thanks

 

Bryan

 

I used a spacer but not for the purpose you stated. I had to use a 3/8" spacer to make my 17x8 mustang wheels even fit on the car with out hitting the spring perch.

[pallnet]

Good info here.

 

I surf the net alot just reading everything I can find on swaps of all sorts. I don't have the info on hand but I remember seeing something about a 5 lug swap on an S30 from a site overseas. The swap (if I remember correctly) used front hubs that looked like 87-89 turbo Z31 and for the rear they used a hub that looked like the S14/Z32 or skyline and they had CV shafts that looked like later shafts that splin fit into the later hubs.

pallnet

[fastzcars]

Nice follow up! I will take some measurements to verify my findings. This is great info for a sticky! I will report back over the weekend!

[Kevin.pk]

Rearcont'd

Option 4

Another option I left out is the Techno toy tuning entire rear end kit. This option is not for the faint of heart but should stand to be the last upgrade you do for the entire rear end of the car. It entails replacement of differential(and mounts), CV joints, hubs, shock tube, brakes, and coilovers. It essentially replaces everything except the lower control arms (and those are an available option as well.) This option uses a combination of precision made custom parts as well as readily available OEM pieces as well.

 

More info is available HERE on hybridz and also at the Techno toy tuning website

 

[pallnet]

Kevin

I've followed the rear thread above that uses later hub assemblies but the one I spoke of used just the hub portion and it was pressed into bearings inside the stock S30 rear uprights.

pallnet

[deru]

Very nice write up. I didn't know you were suppose to use the s12+8 caliper with the vented rotors. I just bolted up my fronts and I used the S12W's. Haven't bled everything out yet but it all bolted together perfectly so I guess it will still work.

[Kevin.pk]

Kevin

I've followed the rear thread above that uses later hub assemblies but the one I spoke of used just the hub portion and it was pressed into bearings inside the stock S30 rear uprights.

pallnet

 

Sounds interesting. Your comment just reminded me of the TTT upgrade and thought I would add it. The swap you are talking about sounds very interesting though and could be a strong solution over the old style of stub axles while still utilizing stock rear hub housing. If you happen to come Across where you saw it, be sure to post it.

[Kevin.pk]

Very nice write up. I didn't know you were suppose to use the s12+8 caliper with the vented rotors. I just bolted up my fronts and I used the S12W's. Haven't bled everything out yet but it all bolted together perfectly so I guess it will still work.

 

eiither caliper should work fine. I think think some people may find the Pedal to be slightly mushy with the s12w without the 280zx master cylinder. I can't speak from personal experience because I used the s12+8 wide calipers. The s12w just have slightly more volume as a result of the four equal sized pistons. It may be more personal preference but i'm not sure, dont't take my word as gospel, you may want to do additional research to be certain. Be sure to read the link I posted in the note I mentioned in the first post, there are two different versions of the s12+8 caliper( one that works with the z31 vented rotor and one that works with the stock s30 rotors with stock 4 lug hubs). Hopefully these last two posts made sense,I'm posting from my phone.

[Kash]

Sticky Please!

[The240zProject]

bump for sticky

[titaniumtone]

Fantastic info Dude. I'm putting together a '74 260 . I had saved a pic of your car for month,s and had often wondered how you did it. This is a wealth of info.

Two questions though. Are the spring purches, on the rear, stock or coilovers? If stock, how much clearance is there between tire and strut?

[Kevin.pk]

Fantastic info Dude. I'm putting together a '74 260 . I had saved a pic of your car for month,s and had often wondered how you did it. This is a wealth of info.

Two questions though. Are the spring purches, on the rear, stock or coilovers? If stock, how much clearance is there between tire and strut?

 

On my car the spring perches are stock at all four corners. I shaved the lip of the perch down slightly to give that extra millimeter or two of clearance though.

 

My rear setup includes the mustang bullitt wheels with 3/8" spacer. This combination yields me ~9mm clearance between the spring perch and tire. The tire choice will really effect whether or not you rub. I have two different brands front and rear(both 245/45/17), Kumhos run a little wide and rub slightly on big bumps in the rear but my sumitumos fit with no rubbing whatsoever in the rear.

 

My front setup has ~3mm clearance from the perch to the inner wheel lip. Its close enough that you must have the stick on weights rather than the ones that clamp on the edge of the rim or else they will hit the spring perch.

 

The clearance has been fine on the street but if you intend to track the car it might be a little close, I'm not entirely sure about that statement though. I'm not sure what the minimum clearance really is.

 

Glad to see this thread was helpful.

[stony]

Searching around for an answer to a 5 lug question i came across this and thought i would add what i did to convert my front to five lug big brake.

 

if you are considering sectioning your struts here is some info in a cheap ( in my case free) brake and 5 lug upgrade.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=121032

 

i basically section in the bottom half of a z31 from strut to the top end of my s30 coil over strut using VW inserts.

 

You have to have adjustable control arms and tc rods as the caster is different on the z31. i was able to tune it out with AZC control arms, tc rods and camber plates.

 

I had to use the z31 steering knuckle which also required the steering rack arms to be made longer. anyways just thought i would add my input. and as mentioned above this does move the wheel out 3/4 to an inch so a different offset is required. Also if you z32 or gtr calipers laying around it is a bolt on upgrade.

[HowlerMonkey]

If you're going to 5 lug, why not embrace the offset required?

 

The offset of the Z31 allows fitment of 5 lug wheels made for a huge variety of cars while a "rear drive offset" with deeper dish is getting rare these days.