Guest Anonymous Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Well as I mentioned in another topic, my Taurus fan was pretty much toast. It ate another relay and it was only working on low speed anyway. So I decided to hit the pick-a-part and see what I could come up with. I managed to find a later model fiero GT fan which I pulled because it was super easy, four bolts, easy access no engine up front in the way. Its a fairly sizable unit, it has straight blades which is more effecient although slightly louder (curved blades are for easing the noise not performance). If fits probably 85% of my Howes radiator core and has a unique staggered fan blade (meaning it looks like its missing a fan blade as theres space between two blades, but its made that way). The fan is one speed, turns what sounds like a much lower RPM than the taurus, but its blades are bigger with more pitch and it seems to put out air roughly between the taurus on high, and the taurus on low speed. I hastily put it on the car because it was going to rain again (monsoon, sticky, muggy weather last couple days, debree from a california storm) and I was impressed with how well it fit the core, how quiet it was by comparison (way less RPM than the ford fan) and how much air it put out. Driveway testing and admittedly not tested in traffic with the air on, but running for 25 minutes in the driveway with the a/c on showed it not getting higher than 180 and I had to turn the a/c on to get it there. While these units aren't super available, its a decent workable fan and you may run across them. Another unit I liked was out of a laser, it had a recovery tank built into the fan shroud, but the fiero was easier to get to. At any rate, a bit of walking the yards will net you plenty of potentially great OEM fans, we've only scratched the surface of what we can convert to fit these cars. Anyway, heres a quick pic, its running when this was taken and the motor compartment is a complete mess after a dust storm here about a month ago. Cheers. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Wow, it looks like it was made for the car, and actually is better looking than the Taurus fan IMO. I can't remember seeing many Fieros (this was a V6 car?) at the yard, but maybe I'll yank one the next time I'm there. You never can have too many extra parts Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Yeah Bro, V6 GT Fiero, the ones that starting getting good before they pulled the plug (more fastback looking like a dino in the back). I really liked the interior too, nice gauge pods, made me think of what Ernie was talking about in his SHO-gun Z (my nickname for it, it sounded like it was going to be something, hope he builds another one, it sounded trick with the interior he described). Take care. Regards, Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Single speed? What's the depth? My Cobra fan is doing well but I'm hunting a fan for the Supra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Lone, keep us posted on your results sounds promising with a lot less electricity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greimann Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Lone, your fan electrical problems sparked a smoldering thought process (pardon the pun) that may help resolve why you are frying relays. Lets remember that an electrical device such as a motor is designed to draw a certain amount of power (watts). Watts, given by Ohms law, is P=IV where power = amps X volts. We usually assume that in an automotive applicaton that volts are a constant at about 13.8. Knowing this we usually design a circuit for an amperage draw based on the power requirements of the device. Example: if an electrical device is designed to draw 414 watts at 13.8 volts, then the amp draw would be 30 amps (P/V=I). If the same device that needs 414 watts is supplied with only 11 volts, then the amp draw increases to 37.6. Where I am going with this, is that somewhere in your wiring or electrical system, you have a voltage drop that is causing the fan to draw more amps than is normally required. OR You never mentioned what your relays were rated at, and they may not be robust enough to handle the draw. A 40 amp relay is about the max that is available for a 12 volt automotive system and that 'should' be adequate. Just something to chew on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 I didn't burn the 30 amp as much as melted its case (mounted behind the right strut tower to much header/ambient underhood heat when the car basically overheated). The 40 amp I simply replaced, it was still working, it was mounted up front and the wires leading to it were not sized right (12 ga) and I replaced it for my trip to Tempe because I didn't have time to pic and pull one. My fan could have also developed some problems possibly causing it to draw lots of juice, I'm not sure, high was burnt out and I was running low, that could have helped it along, I know little about two speed electric motors and what happens when one pole burnt out and its effect on the other one. Greimann, your probably right on the resistance or voltage drop causing a problem, I had some rather long wires going to it and that could very well be the case. How long have you been running your Taurus in your car? Mine had been in there for over a year before I started noticing it melting the insulation off of 12 ga wire near the crimp connectors, I replaced it with 10 gauge and while it didn't melt it, you couldn't touch the wire after it had been running and the 30 amp plastic case was melted. I think it was Pete that mentioned they can draw 60-70 amps almost, so I'd keep a eye on your wires/fuses/relays if you havn't had it in there long. I had inline 30 amp fuses blow like they were candy. Current status after running it today, and its hard to judge because our weather is cooler today, but I never saw it get above 165 without the air on. End of next week we should see 100's again and I'll report more on it then, but for now, I'm liking it alot. This time through though, I did it different. I didn't want to use another relay just because I've not had good luck with them, probably to small a amperage relay as you mentioned, so this time I have a fusable link going to the fan, and a large amp switch in the car mounted on the side of the console ran off the battery, I manually flip the fan on and off. Perhaps not the most elegant solution for everyone, but its simple, delivers good juice to the fan and I can hear it when I turn it on and off (I used the KISS formula on that one , I figure it works for the race cars, it'll work for my driver). More news when I get in the 100's and try it with the air, but I'm confident it'll easily handle it fine and predict it won't go over 180 tops. Jim, Its not very shallow, it has a motor that must be 3-4" sticking off the back of it, its not a flat motor like the Taurus fan, but more a can type motor, not for the space limited, but for our Z's it works ok leaving a few inches maybe to the fan pulley. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Funny thing everyone is mentioning taurus fans frying wires ,motor etc.. Iv'e had mine in for two years and with only a 30 amp fuse and no problems. I had one burn up from old age but never anything else. I live in Dallas Tx. and it gets pretty hot, 100's in July and August and I run mine on low speed most times. They really move some air even on low! I do run a 105 amp one wire altenator. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Its entirely possible the fan was screwed up and causing a problem Mike, I never would suggest that ALL taurus fans are burning wires etc, I just know mine did and others have mentioned a pretty good amperage draw. I offered this as only a alternative, and offer the info on its effectiveness as such. I didn't mean to imply anything about anyone elses situation. Sorry for the miscommunication if anyone thought I was implying all taurus fans have problems like mine, I had mine in the car for over a year as well and up until recently didn't have much problem with it outside of my using to small of a wire gauge/relay. At any rate, I still think there are many uncharted donor fans, radiators, brake systems, suspension mods that we havn't seen anyone do yet that are just waiting for discovery. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Lone, I have been following your post closely and apreciate your alternative fan posts. The Taurus maybe the magnum 44 but that is a lot of electricity and with that much juice flowing..there could be a big big problem up front very fast. I have been convinced to go electric but I do not like the decision. It would be my luck to pick up some old worn out Taurus fan pulling 65 amps to turn and fry everything. Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullbound Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 zfan (or anyone else), did you have to do anything special to use the 105 amp alternator? i have heard that you can kill an amp gauge quickly going that route and wanted to verify. i actually have a similarly high amp chrome one-wire alternator that i was thinking of installing when i put my new radiator and taurus fan in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 That Fiero fan looks exactly like the electric fan from my '86 Trans Am TPI donor car but with a different shroud. The TA fan works great for you guys who have the Camaro radiator and use the GM upper radiator bracket. The later cars (88-92, maybe 87)have dual fans that work REALLY well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Ryan, I have a 105 amp alt. But I took out the stock amp gauge and installed a volt gauge. Not sure if the alt will kill the amp gauge, but it is a good idea to get rid of it, besides a volt gauge is more accurate. Buy the way all you have to do is connect the two heavy wires of the amp gauge to bypass it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 I did bypass the amp gauge and no I did not do anything fancy to install 105 amp alt. Lone re: Taurus fans, I just thought it was strange how I have heard of the fan frying wires and what not but I have had no such problems. Hopefully now that I went out and said that I will not fry mine. I just ran 10 gauge wires on mine with 30 amp fuse in line plus fuse link inline on mine with 40 amp rated toggle switch for low/off/high. Did not mean to imply anything other than I have not had any problems as of yet..KNOCK ON WOOD!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullbound Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 cool, thanks for the info mike and zfan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Want to second what Greimann said about voltage drop across undersized wires. Would also like to add that the problem is a little more severe than stated since current draw through an electric motor goes up non-linearly with a drop in voltage. In other words, cutting the voltage in half more than doubles the current draw. Undersized wires that are too long will cause a voltage drop across the wires. But even more importantly, even slightly dirty or loose connectors will cause an even bigger drop. That is why Lone was seeing the wire melt near the connector. Cleaning up the relay contacts with an ignition file will help keep the excess heat down. It is kind of a viscous circle. The more voltage drop across the wires and connectors, the lower the voltage at the motor and thus more current is needed. More current increases the voltage drop and thus more current. Higher current also increases arcing across relay contacts pitting them and increasing their resistance. I like to put a little solder on crimp connectors that pass significant amounts current. The solder greatly improves the connection, ensures the connection never gets pulled loose and most importantly seals everything up to prevent corrosion. Of course, all of this could be avoided with a mechanical fan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Is the inverse amp draw correct with DC motors though?. The reason I ask is that (so far) any and all experience I've had with DC motors is the voltage/current draw are proportional (permanent magnet), but not true with AC motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 The GT Mustang fan I have pulls 35 amps on high. I chose to just use two 40 AMP relays in parallel, to share the load. This has worked well. I also used 8 gage wire to the battery cable ground, and 8 gage from the battery cable (at the Ford Starter contactor) and from the Alt output (with 12 gage fusible links). 8 gage affords me neglible voltage drop, higher fan speed, etc. The Chiltons manual for the Mustang shows the use of a 60 amp fuse. I'd imagine this is because the fan draws a good bit more than 35 amps as it's starting and even a slow blow fuse 40 amp may burn out. I used a 60 Amp maxi-fuse BTW, swept (curved) fan blades are more efficient. Noise is energy loss. A fan with properly designed swept blades will pull more air than a straight bladed fan for a given fan torque and speed. If it's noisier, it's also less efficient in turning motor torque into air flow. If a fan is noisy, it's giving up some of it's energy to create noise and is therefore less efficient and will produce less air flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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