I'm bait for EFI, I'm just too scared. Help me get over my Megasquirt fear

[cygnusx1]

There seems to be some EDIS reservations in this thread but there are plenty of other threads giving EDIS and MS a pretty big blessing. I don't want to hijack, but for anyone reading this thread, don't discard EDIS as a replacement for your dizzy if you are running MSII. I am no electronics expert, but my car runs very well with the EDIS on MSII and I am not the only one. Of course there are pluses, minuses, and limitations to everything. I can only say, "Do some searching." It is black and white after you understand it fully.

[josh817]

Got to agree, MS-n-Se allows full timing curve programability in a 3d map according to MAP and RPM. There is a soft and hard rev limiter in the same program, first retarding the timing, then cutting fuel.

 

The datalogging is the same with the correct O2 sensor. Matter of fact, people I know have hooked up their MS boxes and used them as a datalogger to build a spreadsheet for some troubleshooting. You can datalog AFR, TPS, RPM, MAP right out of the box.

 

You probably need to do a bit more research if you missed these facts already. I don't know about megajolt, but if you have one, and can set it up and use it I'm darned sure you can run the simple MS-n-Se software and set it up as well.

No no no, you guys are missing what I'm saying. I'm saying I will save MS for a later time. Right now I have MJ which is only ignition. I won't run a turbo dizzy because that means I'll have to pull the oil pump and, change the spindle, and then wire accordingly. MJ was made for EDIS, and I think made by the same people who did MS? If I'm going to invest my time in wiring, installation, and money, I will go with EDIS because like I said, conjoin it with MJ and I have all the stuff I listed. I didn't say MS didn't have that stuff, MS has a ton of stuff that I won't have, however I only need ignition. Really when you think about it, a VR sensor and trigger wheel are the same thing as the turbo dizzy since its a CAS. I guess I could say "well it gets rid of that spindle slop since its running off of a gear" but I don't thing that slop even plays a role unless you have worn gears.

 

By the way, this is not the place for what I'm fixing to do but I just want to show everyone my first attempt at making an ignition map... Uh not sure if this will work out well... at all... Haha oh well I guess. I need to finish up wiring.

[FlatBlack]

No no no, you guys are missing what I'm saying. I'm saying I will save MS for a later time. Right now I have MJ which is only ignition. I won't run a turbo dizzy because that means I'll have to pull the oil pump and, change the spindle, and then wire accordingly.

 

Josh, with all due respect:

 

Am I to believe you have built yourself a L31 but you are shying away from an entire engine management system because you need to drain the oil and pull 4 12mm bolts off the oil pump??

 

I understand you might not have the time or resources right now for MS but c'mon... you're just being lazy

[Tony D]

We can only comment as we are told things. If it was complexity, then this way;

if it's something else, then the answer is something else.

 

We ran an Electromotive TECII on our Bonneville Car at 8500 rpms with the distributor driven CAS they provided. They warned us it 'may not be as accurate' over 9000 rpms. So, don't EVEN get into the 'distributor slop' argument with this cowboy! :^) That one ain't flyin', more internet parrot talk on absolutist theory, very short on real-world application facts.

 

There is no investment here, BTW. It's all gone. An investment infers 'payback'---let me tell you right now, there is no payback, that time is gone forever and you will never get it back.

 

Which is why I said having a plan from the beninning with clear concrete goals and simply working toward it single mindedly will reap far more benefit than going over the same ground several times.

 

hell, I've got projects that are now 20 years in the making to find al lthe right parts. I'm content to drive it 'as is' till I get the components together. No disgrace in that, IMO. If it's driving and workable, then leave it till you can do it right, once and for all, and be done with it long term.

 

These engines when set up correctly, and sorted in the initial stages of 'commissioning' will turn into dead-reliable-as-new 'appliance vehicles' with outstanding performance. If there is a payback to be had, this is it.

 

But it's not related to the time you put in, I figure that's gone no matter what. You can put in all the time you want, and have the greatest appliance car in the world reliable and all... but one drunk, a slippery curve overcooked on a rainy day... and poof! It's all for naught.

 

All you will get is the 'now' of doing it. That is about the only payback to expect. If you enjoy the work, then the jouirney is more important than the destination. The destination takes care of itself, if you plan the journey well.

[josh817]

Flatblack, yes. Not to mention I already have the MJ unit and installed Dereks crankfire setup, etc. Tony, I don't even know how the dizzy thing was a valid idea. My dad has a customer with a TR6 and he complains that the car pops out of gear when off throttle. The gears are meshed together as long as power is going through them. A good tranny shouldn't be able to pop out of gear without yanking on the shift lever while on throttle. If the dizzy is spinning off of a gear on the crank, shouldn't that "slack/slop" be taken up as long as the RPM is accelerating? Seemed like a silly idea when I first heard it.

[Tony D]

It does, but the effect on spark scatter is really not that important on most applications. When you drop throttle there is 'slop' in the gear of a fraction of a degree. You can measure it with an indicator. But on the rotor position it's irrelevant, for a trigger wheel driving a COP setup it might affect it, but...

 

In theory absolutely, it is a factor. But in practical matters it's not an issue.

 

You're not planning on going to 9500+ are you?

 

(We did run the Tec2 with that drive to higher rpms---over 9500---and that setup worked as well. But we ended up having issues with the O2 feedback circuit, and changed the system. But it wasn't making an appreciable difference on our setup. Maybe it would on a Turbo Car at 30 psi + boost running to 9500+ rpms it might. But that is not my instance, so though even in theory there is a 'problem', it was not a practical consideration.)

 

And you're right about the popping out of gear: syncho or heavy gearshift...

[josh817]

Tony, what do you think of my ignition table? Cam comes in around 3000-3500 RPM so I wanted most of my advance coming in at that time. I think right now I'm at 35º total advance with my dizzy setup, but I feel like I can go more. My current idle advance is 15º and I can't get an idle lower than 1400RPM unless the motor is cold. With this cold weather, its starting to idle at lights at like 1700RPM I'm wanting 800RPM idle. It may have something to be with the mixture too. I don't have a wideband yet so I'll have to see. Rev limiter is set for 7000RPM and with the way they have their system, the advance drops to 0 100RPM before the limiter, this way you don't cut spark with full advance. I think the idea was to cut the power significantly before you cut the spark.

[Tony D]

retarding the timing is a way to slow down the engine. Lock the advance weights in a distributor and see how sprightly the car accelerates...

 

Advance is best dealt with on a dyno, add till you stop gaining power, then back it off a comfortable safety margin. Less is wiser than more. Generally you don't want any more than you absolutely need.